Systems and processes are not the fun, creative things designers want to spend time on. But those BTS, “boring” processes are working even when you aren't! They work to save you time, money, and emotional turmoil. So, ok, having processes, setting boundaries, and tailoring your business to your lifestyle all sound great—but how? This is precisely what Rebecca Hay and I are discussing in this episode.

This episode is Part 2 of a conversation that began on Rebecca’s podcast (be sure to check that out), which was all about intuition and boundaries as business owners! This time around, we’re digging in deeper into what it looks like to create the nuts and bolts of a thriving design business. Everything from time blocking, to budgeting projects, to vetting ideal clients, and how it feels to get support to run your business efficiently. Whether you’re a new business owner or a seasoned design firm owner, this conversation has so many good tips and insights packed in it. Be sure to stick around for the Coaching Corner nugget from today’s conversation!

In this episode, we cover:

• What intuition and boundaries have to do with scaling your design business

• Where to start with business systems and processes

• Why it’s not enough to be an amazing interior designer

• What happened in Rebecca’s design firm that inspired her to focus on processes

• How to take your design business from chaos to coordinated

• What it was like emotionally when Rebecca began to hand off tasks

• The personal & professional benefits of instating processes & systems in your firm

What’s the first step you’re taking to implement processes and systems in your design business? Find us online and share with us!

More about Rebecca Hay

Rebecca Hay is the founder of Rebecca Hay Designs Inc. An award-winning Toronto Interior design firm. Their work has been showcased in the pages of top design and lifestyle publications including Elle Decor, Architectural Digest, & Vogue Living to name a few. She’s built her own seven-figure interior design business through trial and error and is now on a mission to help other interior designers do the same. Rebecca is the host of the top-rated interior design business podcast Resilient by Design where she has candid conversations & offers practical advice for design professionals looking to grow their confidence & their business. Rebecca’s goal is to empower women to take charge of their businesses, make more money & and feel empowered while doing it!

Links and Mentioned Resources

The Studio

Coaching Strategy Session

Katie's appearance on Resilient by Design with Rebecca Hay

These Parents Are Shelling Out to Have Someone Else Pack Their Kids for Camp (WSJ)

Connect with Rebecca Hay

Podcast - Resilient by Design

Website

Instagram

Power of Process Course

Designer’s Room Membership

This episode is brought to you by Nello Marelli

Struggling to stay ahead with the ever-evolving design trends while running your business? Discover the secret weapon of the design world - the 2025 Nel Colore Color Trend Book. Crafted by the renowned Italian designer Nello Morelli, whose expertise guides luxury brands from Milan to Paris, this tool is now stateside with our partnership. Get exclusive access to future color trends, combinations, and sociological insights up to two years in advance, ensuring your designs stand out. Elevate your projects and leave the trend-watching to us. Find the Nel Colore Color Trend Book, along with a mini version, exclusively in The Studio. 

Connect with Katie Decker-Erickson

Book Your Coaching Strategy Session with Katie!

Business Coaching for Interior Designers

Facebook

Instagram

Subscribe to Colorful Conversations with Katie Podcast

YouTube

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

More about Colorful Conversations with Katie

Welcome to “Colorful Conversations with Katie”! Join us for a vibrant webcast where we seamlessly blend the realms of design and business in a fun and professional setting. Available on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms!

Hosted by the dynamic Katie, a seasoned expert with nearly 20 years of experience in both fields, this engaging series promises to ignite your creative spark and sharpen your entrepreneurial acumen. From exploring the latest design trends to uncovering strategies for building successful ventures, we dive deep into the colorful world where aesthetics meet profitability.

Whether you’re a budding designer or a savvy entrepreneur, this webcast is your go-to source for inspiration, insights, and a dash of lively conversation. Tune in and let your imagination, business and life take flight!

This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you. 

This episode of Colorful Conversations with Katie is brought to you in partnership with Leah Bryant Co.

The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Colorful Conversations with Katie podcast follows

Katie (00:01.38)

Rebecca, welcome to our show.

Rebecca Hay (00:12.376)

Thank you. I'm very excited to chat with you again.

Katie (00:16.036)

We are so excited because we had so much fun being on your show. And then after we cut out of that show, I'm like, Rebecca, I don't feel like we're done talking. And you're like, no, we're not done talking. I'm like, come on our show. So it was so great to have you. It's so fun to have you here. And what we were talking about was intuition and boundaries, which is so important in scaling your business to your lifestyle. Trust your intuition, set good boundaries, but also logistically how. And that's what we want to unpack on this episode.

How? Because that sounds really good, but then I'm like, Rebecca, now I got to do it. Where do I start? What do I do? What would you speak into that space?

Rebecca Hay (00:51.415)

Yeah, I love that we're having this conversation because when we were chatting about boundaries and tuition, it's one thing to say, yeah, I'm going to hold boundaries or I'm going to listen to my gut and do A versus B, but it's a whole other ball game when you actually have to implement and make decisions in your business. And as in my podcast, we talked about tailoring your business to your lifestyle. That's all well and good if you don't, unless you don't know how.

Katie (01:09.636)

Mmm.

Rebecca Hay (01:19.351)

to do it. Most of us don't know how to do it. Like, let's be honest, I didn't go to business school. I did not know how to show up professionally when I was starting my interior design firm 10 years ago. I really had no idea. It was very chaotic. I was kind of running around. I was, you know, giving into every client whim, which is right back to the conversation we had on my podcast, which was no boundaries, right? Responding to text messages in the middle of the night, crying in bed at night. You know, I think we talked about that. Like it was...

Not easy and it was very stressful. And I remember thinking, my gosh, like there has to be a better way. Like how are other people running their business? Because this is not sustainable. This running around running around chaos. Like I was pregnant in the first few years. I had two babies in the first four years of running my business and it was exhausting because I didn't have structure. I didn't have what I now know as systems. I didn't have a process.

Katie (01:50.98)

Mm -mm.

Katie (01:54.692)

Hmm.

Rebecca Hay (02:18.423)

in my business to help build that framework, to give me the backbone to say no to clients or to tell them it's my way or the highway, right? Like that is really what I'm hoping we can dive into today is talking about that structure that every creative business owner needs if they want to have some control in their life.

Katie (02:38.756)

That's the key. That's the nugget right there. You may not like the idea of systems if you're listening to this and you're like processes and you roll your eyes and you're like, that is not my happy place. I want to go design. That's why I went into this field, right? I totally feel you. But here's the thing. We're going to give you time back to design and have space for that because the key about systems and processes, they work when you aren't. So once you have a system and a process, stuff is still moving through everything you need it to in your business.

but you don't have to be touching it all the time because you're one person. Your point about sustainable is so real because I think so many designers can relate. They about kill themselves and then they're all recovering designers who move on to other fields or scale back their businesses dramatically. Or yeah, just say throw up their hands and walk away, right? So I think that's a really valuable.

Rebecca Hay (03:26.327)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (03:31.94)

point, but it can be intimidating too. And it's not something that necessarily comes naturally to us as designers. We love to create, but give us a system and a process. And it's kind of like sitting down with our CPA. We're like, well, I'd rather have a colonoscopy. So where, where practically do you start? Where to the person who's sitting in there shaking in their boots going, I don't want to, but I know I need to. What do you say to them?

Rebecca Hay (03:56.919)

I think the first thing you need to do is to recognize that no one should have to do this alone. Like this is running a business can feel very isolating. And so thinking that you are like, I know for the longest time I was like, I'm an independent woman. I'm gonna do this for myself. I don't need help. I'm gonna prove to everyone in the world, including my mother that I have got this. And it was fricking exhausting.

Katie (04:04.932)

Yes.

Katie (04:23.844)

I love you. Yeah, it was good for about like one minute, right? Like one minute, I felt like a superwoman and the next minute I was under my desk crying and being like, I thought that was a good idea. I need help. I need help.

Rebecca Hay (04:25.015)

And I think many people listening can relate to that. Yeah.

Rebecca Hay (04:35.959)

Totally. And also I think the other thing we need to recognize in the beginning is it's okay to make mistakes. You are going to fail. You are going to f up. Like you are. And I still will. Katie Decker- Erickson still will. Like we all will. On our road to success. we are going to blunder. Yes! Right?

Katie (04:45.38)

Yeah.

Katie (04:49.636)

Yes.

Katie (04:57.472)

I had a doozy just last week. Yep. Yep. It happens. It so happens. I'm like, I should know that. We've been in the industry almost 20 years. I was like, why did I not know that I needed a permit for that outdoor pergola? I'm like, how did I miss that? Of course. I mean, we're going to mollybolt it down, but I go, yeah, yeah, actually that didn't mean when.

Once it was unpacked to me, I'm like, yeah, this makes complete sense. How did I get here? And then of course, it's not engineered for the commercial application. The stamp is out of China. So we have to back into all of that. Right. And I'm like, just when you think you've got it figured out, which is something I kind of love about our profession, but there's always something new to learn, which is why if you ever think you have it completely dialed and styled, get ready. You're about to be put flat on your butt because there'll be something that'll come along. Yeah, we're all learning.

Rebecca Hay (05:25.527)

Mmm.

Rebecca Hay (05:41.015)

Mm -hmm.

Rebecca Hay (05:49.687)

Not to let that discourage the person listening because the reality is we're all going through it. And in some ways it's nice to hear that it's like, Katie messes up too. I don't feel so bad that I picked the wrong paint color and now we have to repaint the walls. That stuff is gonna happen. I'm trying really hard not to swear and to be very clean. It's really challenging for me.

Katie (05:53.252)

Not at all.

Yes.

Katie (06:00.868)

Yeah. Don't.

Katie (06:11.94)

I know.

Katie (06:16.42)

You and me both! I love you, Rebecca!

Rebecca Hay (06:19.319)

but truthfully, let me, okay, can I tell you a story? So, okay. So early in my business, I had worked for another designer. I helped him grow and manage his business. And I was his do everything assistant. And finally I got pregnant. I was like, okay, I'm going out on my own. Like I'm ready to do this. Like I know how to design. I now understand who to call. I know where to find the fabrics, how to place the orders, that sort of thing. He was just a one man shop.

Katie (06:23.588)

Do it!

Katie (06:33.508)

Hmm.

Rebecca Hay (06:47.351)

did not have a team, we didn't have process, we didn't have systems, we didn't have any of that. No project management tools, like nothing like that. And so I'm like, I'm gonna go to my own. And I go to my own and at first, you know, I'm feeling a bit confident because like, I'm feeling confident, I can pick fabrics. And you know, when anyone starts a business as a creative, I think our first, not hurdle, but our first milestone really is feeling confident just in our craft.

Katie (07:12.676)

Hmm.

Rebecca Hay (07:15.319)

And that's okay. Like if you're in that early stage of your business where you just want to feel confident in your craft that, wow, someone thinks I'm good enough to hire me. Like I remember those days and those are exciting times. Once you pass that milestone of, okay, yeah, no, I know what I'm doing. That's when you all of a sudden realize, shoot, there's this business side of things that I didn't know anything about. And so for me, when I first started out little old Rebecca,

Katie (07:15.524)

Yeah.

Katie (07:22.532)

Yes.

Katie (07:32.868)

Yeah.

Rebecca Hay (07:42.743)

I, you know, I thought I was doing a great job and I was picking right the right colors and fabrics and people loved my selections, but I had this one client and I thought this client was going to be my ticket to like the luxury clientele of Toronto. She was, she fit the bill, right? She ticked all the boxes, all the right connections. And we did, it was mostly decorating with a little bit of renovation and we get to the end of the project. It had been a lemon.

Katie (07:49.636)

Hmm. Yeah.

Katie (08:01.348)

Hmm.

Rebecca Hay (08:12.119)

Like when I say a lemon, like think of that car that everything goes wrong, right? Like my mama once had a Mercedes, everyone was like, ooh, it's a Mercedes. I'm like, yeah, it's a lemon. The electrical doesn't work. She keeps getting hit. The tires are flat. Like everything goes wrong. That was this project for me. You know, the ceiling medallion goes in, the ceiling medallion is the wrong shape. Rebecca, how come you didn't know to put a rectangular ceiling medallion? The fixture you picked is rectangular. And I was like, I don't know.

Katie (08:13.124)

Hmm.

Katie (08:27.588)

of all projects.

Rebecca Hay (08:39.607)

You know, I wanted to do a custom table so I could make more money. So I discouraged the client from buying the one at the store they'd found to then have the custom table delivered. And the quality was so crap that we had to send it back and refund the client. And then she went and bought the original table. Like everything went wrong. But they sat me down at the end of the project, more like I came with a bottle of vuv to say like, congratulations, yay, we're done slash phew, like get me out of here. And I sit down.

Katie (08:57.54)

Right.

Katie (09:05.54)

Right? Taking my little lash shred of dignity and I'm walking out the door now. Thank you very much. Yeah.

Rebecca Hay (09:11.799)

Basically, you know, and you're like, I just need to just do this one last thing and then it can be done. And they were like, Rebecca, we just want to give you some constructive feedback. And I'm like, like waiting for it, right? It's like being called to the principal's office. And I'm like, absolutely, you know, like, you know, trying to be professional, polite. And she said, we have loved what you did here. Everything is beautiful. We love the design.

Katie (09:15.364)

Yep.

Katie (09:39.492)

Mm.

Rebecca Hay (09:41.847)

We think you are lovely, but we really did not enjoy the process of working with you. And so we're not gonna carry on in the next phase or refer you. And we know blah, blah, blah. And then the rest of it is just noise to me, right? It's like they're trying to say how if they were in business, it would be helpful to hear blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It felt like a fricking dagger to the heart. And I took it really personally and I got super defensive, but it was awakening time for me.

Katie (09:42.212)

Mmm.

Katie (09:51.14)

Wow, that's bold.

Katie (10:04.516)

Totally.

Rebecca Hay (10:11.223)

I needed to get my bleep together inside my business so that I could serve clients so that I could do beautiful work because it is not enough to be a good designer.

Katie (10:14.468)

Totally.

Rebecca Hay (10:24.663)

It's not enough to be good.

Katie (10:24.964)

That is a nugget right there. It is not enough to be a good designer. And if that offends you, go back and rewind what you just heard and the reason why, because it's going to cost you money. It's going to cost you time. It's going to cost you clients and you cannot scale your business if you don't figure this out. That's a gutsy story to share and gutsy of the client to sit you down and say that how.

Rebecca Hay (10:44.407)

Yeah.

Katie (10:52.484)

Obviously hurts immensely in the moment. I don't care how seasoned you are. Nobody wants to hear that When did you feel like you got to a place where you could? Accept and then even act on that in a proactive way

Rebecca Hay (11:06.266)

I can tell you it didn't happen right away. It did not happen right away. I immediately went into the blame spiral. I immediately blamed the person who had been working for me. They screwed up. I immediately blamed my trades for not catching the medallion, for sending shoddy quality. I mean, it was my fault for not inspecting it before it was delivered. It was my fault for not spec -ing the right thing. It was my fault for not training.

Katie (11:10.116)

I wouldn't expect it to.

Katie (11:14.532)

Sure.

Rebecca Hay (11:32.539)

the person who worked for me properly or letting them go accordingly. And so it's like they say, you know, you're pointing the finger. And if you're watching this on YouTube, it's like you're pointing the finger. Well, where's the thumb really pointing at? It's you, right? And that was and that is a business owner, as you I'm sure well know, we learned that ultimately the buck stops here and we are the ones responsible and accountable for everything. It totally sucks. But it took me, I would say, a month, like definitely months.

Katie (11:44.26)

Totally.

Katie (11:55.524)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Hay (12:01.307)

before I kind of was like, okay, I'll brush my stand back up, dust myself off and let's get a process. And that's when I knew I thought I had a process and I was also over budget, like all the things. And that's when I sat my team down. I was like, we are spending time figuring out how we run projects from A to Z. And then I got to work and it was a few years of working on my business religiously to get to the place where I was able to.

Katie (12:09.636)

Mmm.

Rebecca Hay (12:30.875)

have incredible clients, you know, do over a million dollars in sales. But it wasn't until I took my business really seriously as a business. I think that's what we're talking here today about is once you start treating your business like a business, you have to focus on the innards, which is how you do things from A to Z. And we can dive into that. Yes.

Katie (12:49.732)

It's the guts, not the glory. Yeah, it really is the guts, not the glory. And I think take design completely out of it. It doesn't matter what business you're in. And this is hard to do, but this is what separates good from great. If you want to get to that seven figure business, I would say if you want to get to a six figure business, you're going to have to have processes, number one. But number two, they cannot live in your head because you may have them all and have them all in your head.

Rebecca Hay (13:00.314)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (13:17.38)

But that doesn't mean you can hire based on those, that you can fire based on those, that you can scale based on those. It just doesn't work. You're your own worst enemy at that point because you aren't gonna be able to move beyond yourself. How did you implement the first process? How did you say, okay, maybe they had a fair point. I should do this. And I really appreciate what you shared.

Rebecca Hay (13:29.017)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (13:44.164)

It wasn't just a one time thing. We're going to start with the on ramp of what was the first thing and the one thing, but it was years. And in our firm, we're never done with processes. We're constantly revising templates. We're constantly market shifts, client shifts, better, more efficient ways of doing things. Yeah, you got to start chronicling your processes so you can change them to become even better once you have them, right? But let's go back to that question. What was your first process you implemented in your firm or one of?

Rebecca Hay (14:09.369)

Mm -hmm. So I think the very first process that I implemented was related to pain point. So what is our greatest pain point right now in our project? And I would encourage those listening to do the same thing. If you're already running a design firm, then you'll know. If you haven't...

Katie (14:17.796)

Hmm.

Katie (14:23.876)

a great one.

Rebecca Hay (14:26.648)

started your design firm and you're just, you know, you're just listening to the podcast to get all the information, then listen very carefully and don't make the mistakes the rest of us has made. But think about where things could potentially go awry. And for me, a big pain point was budget and not knowing.

Katie (14:38.884)

Hmm.

Katie (14:42.756)

Yep.

Rebecca Hay (14:44.408)

not really knowing what things cost because I wasn't paying attention to it and because I didn't, I wasn't interested in it because I didn't think I was good with money because I felt nervous talking about money. So for me, one of the biggest pain points was figuring out how do I calculate my design fee? How do I communicate it to a client and how do I communicate what projects are going to cost? And so for me, it was figuring out, OK, I need a system to figure out how I calculate my fee proposal for each project.

Katie (15:05.124)

Hmm.

Rebecca Hay (15:14.314)

project. And so that was kind of where it started because I was always over budget, like hundreds of sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars, like embarrassing to say now. But at the same time, it really forced me to figure out, OK, what are the steps we need to take to ensure that when we present to our clients, we're not over budget? OK, first of all, I need to let them know in advance.

Katie (15:15.46)

Absolutely.

Katie (15:20.004)

Hmm.

Katie (15:24.9)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (15:34.596)

Mmm.

Rebecca Hay (15:36.567)

What my fee is going to be. I need to figure out what that's going to be. I can't just say, I'll charge you hourly until until the sun sets. Right. That wasn't working for me. I had tried that. It worked for the designer I worked for. But he had clients with multi -million dollar projects and I did not. And so you have to know your client. And that was a big learning. And my God, I feel like that's a whole other episode. Right. But you have to understand who your client is.

Katie (15:44.292)

Right.

Katie (15:57.668)

Yeah. But it's so true. Well, and the whole idea, I'll never forget one of the greatest compliments we got from one of our clients. They said, you're our easy button. And I thought, isn't that true? Everybody wants an easy button in life. Like.

It's like the good old fashioned red button that sits on your desk that was in the Staples ads for years, right? But you just want to hit the easy button and have it done. That's why they've hired us is to be the easy button. You cannot be the easy button if you keep presenting them with financial surprises. You just can't be their easy button, but that's hard. It's hard because now we're going to have to put on that business hat again and get into the metrics game, right? It's going to have to be a metrics game and figuring out how much do I really need to charge?

so that I can level up my business.

Rebecca Hay (16:47.861)

Yeah, totally. I love that. By the way, my mom has one of those. I don't even know why she has it. She in her office, she has one of those staples easy buttons. My kids are like, what's this? Bang, bang, bang.

Katie (16:53.668)

That's awesome.

I love them. Yeah. And you're like, please stop. Just please stop. But I think that's the goal for everybody. Right? I know we were so, I'm like, I have never been happier to be called an office product in all my life. Thank you so very much. I will wear that as a badge of honor. But I think that's why we're brought in. There was a great article. It was in the Wall Street Journal. Just today.

Rebecca Hay (17:02.421)

But that is an incredible compliment. Sorry, that's an incredible compliment. Yes.

Katie (17:24.803)

So we this is gonna air about a week after we're recording but it was talking about people who are buying back their time They're spending fifteen to twenty thousand dollars to hire companies that will pack their kids and buy everything for their kids to go to camp for five to seven weeks and Not kidding and there's even this kids clothing store. It's in New York. I'm gonna butcher this I want to say New York Charlotte and somewhere else they have three locations and you literally go into your slip

Rebecca Hay (17:41.27)

No.

Katie (17:54.82)

And their value add, now this is brilliant from a business sense, their value add is not only do they have everything you need to shop it, but then they will label it all for free. So it all goes home with your camper. Do you know how many mothers do that?

Rebecca Hay (18:05.781)

Do you know how many hours? Yes, I know because my kids go to camp and I iron labels on socks for three hours last summer. I would happily pay.

Katie (18:17.252)

You need to find this company. I will send you the article from the Wall Street Journal. But I thought the golden nugget of it, right? I know I'd happily pay. I keep getting this thing, by the way, that comes across my Facebook feed. That's like this stamper that's like waterproof and everything. And you could see all the kids articles of clothing. And it's designed for a clothing stamper. And I'm like, I think this fall I'm just going to cave and buy it because I'm like so tired of losing sweaters and school uniform pieces. I like need that stuff to come home. But the golden nugget in the article was at the very end.

Rebecca Hay (18:33.621)

So smart.

Katie (18:47.364)

And it said, well, this may sound like a lot for these families. It's about buying back time. And I think for our clients, they want that beautiful place to call home. But you are giving them back their time. And even in commercial, we're giving them back their time so they don't have to figure out, is this line item in the budget being used correctly? Am I going to get the ROI I seek? Or in the case of residential, is my home going to feel like a haven at the end of the day?

All of that works in tandem, but it's giving them back the time that they are seeking so they don't have to do it themselves. And part of that is, I think as designers, we have to give ourselves back time too. And that's what those processes do. It's ethical and fair to the client because you're getting more efficient at what you do, right? And better at what you do. They benefit from that.

Rebecca Hay (19:23.445)

Mm -hmm.

Rebecca Hay (19:29.589)

Yes. Yes.

Katie (19:40.772)

We all need our time back. That's the one thing we can't make more of. My gosh, we can make more fabrics. We can make more beauty. We can make more chandeliers. We cannot make more time. And so giving that gift to our clients and giving it to ourselves, that is what I really believe separates. It's another good to great separator.

Rebecca Hay (19:59.096)

So I think it's interesting you say that idea of time. I mean, it's funny when in the early years.

I remember thinking like, I don't want structure. Like I'm a creative. I don't, that's why I'm in business for myself. So I don't have to like clock in and clock out. I don't want a nine to five job. I don't want like, I don't want the pressures of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I want to be free. And so I really actually resisted having structure and set ways of doing things in my business. Like the idea of saying, okay, I don't know, like time blocking my week. So like on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I'm going to be doing sourcing or what have you, but.

Katie (20:11.364)

Right?

Katie (20:15.332)

Hmm.

Katie (20:22.084)

Mm -hmm.

Rebecca Hay (20:33.399)

Actually, actually, the most amazing thing happened. Once I started using steps that I followed in my business, religiously, I got more time to be creative. And so even though it sounds counterintuitive, and I know you know this, Katie, it's like you block off time to be creative. But actually, because you know you have the time.

Katie (20:39.172)

Hmm.

Katie (20:43.876)

Yeah.

Katie (20:49.476)

Rebecca Hay (20:59.512)

you get to use it to be creative. What would happen in the early years is I would always put off doing creative endeavors because I had so many lists to check off. my God, did I follow up on that CFA? What about the contractor? my God, he's calling me. I have to go to site and I know I wanted to work on the AutoCAD or I wanted to do the.

Katie (21:02.66)

Yeah.

Katie (21:17.06)

Hmmmm

Rebecca Hay (21:17.335)

I don't know the rendering or I wanted to do this beautiful. I was really thinking I'd go check out that new supplier because I heard he's really good, but I just don't have time. And so what would happen is I didn't give myself the time to creatively think outside the box. And I would see all these designers on Instagram doing cool things. I'm like, how do they even have the time to like to like sketch something out? Because we know to be creative, you have to let your mind have that space. And so actually, by having structure in your business and your days, you give yourself more time and immediately

Katie (21:31.076)

Yes.

Katie (21:40.164)

Go. Yeah.

Rebecca Hay (21:47.289)

I started designing custom furniture. I started doing things that were at another level because I had the time structured to spend unstructured.

Katie (21:57.636)

I absolutely love this. The idea of time blocking for the creative part from nine to noon, I'm going to get a cup of coffee and I'm going to work on this project. And this is going to be the space I'm going to set in for this project. There is so much value in this. I've started doing this also with the things I don't like as much as I do with the things I do like. So when I know it's on the calendar and I blocked an hour to run through all those financials that I'm like, okay, here we go.

Gonna tell the financials today. I mean, I love our account and she's brilliant. And I'm like, I'm here again, but I will consistently be two to three minutes late because I just need a cup of something in order to get through an accounting meeting because it's just not my happy place. But we do it because we know we have to slowly going to the gym and everything else that comes in middle age. Right. But like when I schedule it and I know someone else is going to be there. And at the end, I'm like,

we're doing okay. This is great. We're doing good. We're on track. We're doing what we need to be doing. There's also a piece that comes with that. And so whether it's the task you do like the task that you don't, I think this goes right back to scaling and to time. I love this. I love that you tied in the practical component of this. Listening carefully. If you're listening, block off of the things you like, block off of the things you don't take control of your calendar. You may have that Calendly link. We do where people can book calls with us and whatever.

Rebecca Hay (23:01.14)

Yeah.

Katie (23:22.212)

but get ahead of your week, get ahead a week or two and start blocking the time you need for projects. Let other people schedule around it because otherwise your business is gonna own you instead of you owning it.

Rebecca Hay (23:28.98)

Yes.

Rebecca Hay (23:33.493)

Yeah, or your clients are going to own you. Because if you don't have a process, I actually was just talking about this with another student of mine in, inside designers, and we were talking about this idea that if you don't have a process, you're following your client's process. And let me tell you, they, they don't actually have a process. They're a nightmare.

Katie (23:36.036)

Yes, yes, which is so hard.

Katie (23:43.3)

Yeah.

Katie (23:52.548)

Yeah, and we all know that's a dumpster fire.

Katie (23:58.692)

Yeah. No, in fact, we just got a call on this two days ago from a potential lead. It was a great conversation. And she was like, OK, I'm going to figure out a project to put you on. And I'm going to. And I said, look, here's what often happens. I'm just going to be really honest with you. You're going to call us because you're going to have a rescue. And it's going to be a dumpster fire. And you're going to call us because it's a dumpster fire. And I said, we'll give you one free dumpster fire. Totally give you.

I mean, we'd bill you for it, but we let you have one, right? Because onboarding a client sometimes is hard, especially because our clients in the commercial world are, you know, repeat. We always joke we like to acquire clients like we collect them like it's a collector's item. And so you get one free dumpster fire. And she's like, that's a great idea. Like that actually makes it doable. Okay, great. Thank you. I am not kidding you. Less than 36 hours later, I get a call. I have a dumpster fire. I need a rescue. Can you please help?

And it was her again. She's like, and it's our corporate offices. I'm like, bless, right? But just that alone of saying, OK, but here's what's going to happen with that dumpster fire. You know that your process has gotten you to the dumpster fireplace. Now you're getting on board with our process. So even talking to the GC this morning, I said, look, you're going to think you've disappeared into a black hole. I need one week to onboard the project. I need two weeks to design the project. And I need a week to work through it with the client to make sure they're good with it.

Rebecca Hay (24:55.028)

my God, I love that.

Katie (25:22.532)

So for one month, you're gonna have to pull off all your subs. I understand you wanted to paint next week. I understand you wanna do, but time out, just time out. You're gonna thank me. This is gonna be a go slow to go fast situation. He's like, and it was so funny. I was expecting a lot of pushback. He goes, I'm really gonna like this. Thank you so very much for having processes. I have plenty of things I can do for a month. Just let me know when you're ready. Because he was so relieved, right? And that's what we're giving.

Rebecca Hay (25:25.684)

Hmm.

Rebecca Hay (25:47.443)

amazing.

Katie (25:51.94)

That's what we're giving back to everyone we work with and that becomes your brand builder too.

Rebecca Hay (25:57.043)

Yeah, but you know what I love about what you did there, which I think is amazing. And I wish I was more like you, Katie, because I'm not as strong when it comes. No, really. And I come at it from a different, I'm just a different person, right? I just come from a different background where I'm much more like, I don't know. I'm like tiptoeing. I would have, and most I think creatives probably would have felt nervous saying that to the contractor.

Katie (26:03.108)

that's deeply humbling.

Katie (26:23.14)

Mmm.

Rebecca Hay (26:24.532)

because you'd be like, well, he was expecting this for his job. And well, maybe he could do a couple of things. And then we're making exceptions to how we do things. So even though we've said we need three weeks, well, maybe we could get it done in a week and a half. And we're trying to appease all these different people. And I'm I'm speaking from experience being that person who is again, this maybe comes back to our original conversation on my podcast about boundaries. Right. But is understanding that like.

Katie (26:34.404)

Hmm.

Katie (26:50.916)

I love that conversation.

Rebecca Hay (26:53.171)

I need time to do my job well. And if you and it took me a long time to understand that, like to get to that Katie, Katie place where you're like, this is what's going to happen. This is what I need to do my job. And that is boundaries. And that's having a process that you follow. And that takes time to have sometimes the balls to do if you're if it doesn't come naturally. I think it's always come naturally to you, though. That's the that's my instinct.

Katie (27:03.78)

No.

Katie (27:17.284)

You're way too kind. And if you have missed this conversation on Rebecca's podcast, go to our show notes and bop over to her podcast because it was such a good one about sitting in the seat of your intuition and how we miss that a lot of times as women. But it's the most empowering place you'll be. I feel like you're more than there. You're a total boss, babe. You totally own this. In fact, this is why you teach it to other people, which I love. This is why we say for all of us who are out here coaching and strategizing with you guys.

There are so many good coaches standing in this space that are ready to help you. Whether it's Rebecca, whether it's me, there's so many people. Go find somebody you click with who can help you do this, because this is going to be the game changer in your business. Besides calendar blocking, besides getting systems and processes, what else do we need to do? And I love, this is your term, and I think it's a great one. Take me from chaos to coordinated. What else do you find that people in our industry miss?

Rebecca Hay (28:15.251)

So I think going from chaos to coordinated, I mean, I love that term, and I use that all the time, which is why you said that, because I felt, I felt in the early years, very chaotic. Like it was, I would get to the office and it was just, what fire am I putting out? I was so reactive. I couldn't imagine a world, which is so crazy. And actually I, I'm going to take a moment for myself to feel proud of myself, to be in a place where now,

Katie (28:20.452)

It's a great term.

Katie (28:25.924)

Yeah.

Rebecca Hay (28:39.762)

I'm recognizing like I have come a long way. Like I couldn't have imagined being in a place where I would be proactive and I would make the rules. And I would say this is when I'm going to do it because it was so chaotic. And

Katie (28:48.004)

Mmm.

Rebecca Hay (28:52.562)

Early on, I didn't have any idea what it meant to run a streamlined, easy, successful business. And so I think what really can help someone who's feeling like they're in that chaos, right? They want to, they want to get organized, but they don't know how to do it would be literally actionable advice. You just talked about time blocking, block off a period of time every week to work on your business.

Katie (29:07.908)

Yeah.

Rebecca Hay (29:22.035)

And if you don't know what that means, that means it's an hour or ideally half a day at minimum. If you can get there, but I realize in the early years, it's hard when you're really busy, but start off with an hour and that is your time and you need to honor it. And that's when you sit down and you either look at your numbers to your point. Ugh, sucks. Look at the numbers or you need to look at, do I need to create a checklist so that every time my team and I design a kitchen, we don't forget to include.

Katie (29:47.3)

Hmm.

Rebecca Hay (29:52.082)

the edge profile on the counter is it I'm going to take an hour next week and I'm going to work on my website whatever it might be for you.

Katie (29:55.308)

you

Rebecca Hay (30:02.066)

What I always say to my students inside, I have a course, Power of Process. Inside that course, I always say, because people get overwhelmed. They're like, my gosh, Rebecca, this is so great. This is so much information. I need all these systems. I want to get going. I always say, start at the beginning. So what is the first touch point that you have with a client? And if you're going to set aside an hour every week or two hours or what have you, start with the beginning. So for me, that looks like the discovery call. Like what is my, the very first touch point?

Katie (30:16.868)

Yeah.

Katie (30:27.364)

Yeah.

Katie (30:31.268)

Hmm.

Rebecca Hay (30:31.973)

point for me was what do I do when someone reaches out to me about my design business? Like what do I do? Because before it would just be, I don't know, I'd hop on the phone and then I would just ramble and maybe ask a few questions and agree to meet them. I didn't charge for my consultations. I didn't have a script or questions that I would repeatedly ask every time. I would take phone calls on the fly like I was a hot mess. And so for me, it was getting a system for that.

Katie (30:38.18)

Hmm.

Katie (30:52.58)

Hmm.

Rebecca Hay (30:59.378)

And then once you have a system for just one thing in your business, you start to see, wow, it works. wow. Now I see red flags or yeah, that client's really excited to pay me for my consultation. Or I'm so glad I asked that question. Turns out we both went to the same summer camp or I don't know, whatever it is for you. But I would start with the very first touch point with your client. And then as you work through a project,

Katie (30:59.844)

Absolutely.

Katie (31:06.852)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yep.

Rebecca Hay (31:27.474)

Look at the ways that you can fine tune each part of it. Because otherwise you get overwhelmed.

Katie (31:28.228)

Yeah.

Katie (31:32.356)

I love that. I love that. You get very overwhelmed. And that goes back to the idea that processes should not grow steel. They shouldn't be gathering dust. They should be changing as you're changing, as your business is changing, as your clients are changing. But you have to have a ground work to be able to change. If you don't have that, there's nowhere to go, right? There's just nowhere to go. I think that's like something that, that is the exciting part to me. And I love what you've said about once you have success with one,

Rebecca Hay (31:51.538)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie (32:02.372)

this starts to catch fire. You're going to be like, OK, I can do this again. OK. And you will start seeing your time given back to you and your business running better. And then you start seeing profits because you can take on more because the systems are working so you don't have to. Systems show up all the time once they're created. Right. But people don't. People call in sick. People need days off. But your systems will keep working for you even on weekends. And that's why.

Rebecca Hay (32:11.249)

Yes.

Katie (32:29.988)

You build them. One thing I love how practical that is about start with the first, the first touch point, start with the very first thing. And like as an MBA, it's funny, my mind does the exact opposite. I'm like, if I want to think like a corporation, I know I'm going to have these departments. I'm going to have IT, marketing, finance, right? Slash accounting. These are going to be et cetera, et cetera. Just pick one of those departments and pretend like you are the CEO of your organization. You may not have people working in every one of those departments.

But put on your CEO hat and say, what's not working in my marketing department? Yeah, to your point, do I not like my website? What needs to be changed in my social media? Do I have any social media? Have I touched my social media in six months? Maybe I should address that, right? And weigh in as if you're the department head and the CEO, as if you did have people working for you. And what would you change? And either figure out a strategy to go in and change it or hire the people that can.

Rebecca Hay (33:20.913)

Yeah. And if you ever want to hire, and I know not everybody listening has a desire to scale their business. And that's something that I've learned from working with designers over the last five years is that not everybody wants to scale and grow their business the way that I did in my early years. Like I always had a desire. I wanted a firm. I wanted all these people and you know what I want has changed, but

I've realized that not everyone starting out and running a design firm actually wants that. They just want to eliminate the chaos. They want to feel in control. They want to work on dream projects. And not everybody wants to hire anybody, but...

Katie (33:45.06)

Sir.

Katie (33:49.956)

Yeah.

Katie (33:57.86)

Fair.

Rebecca Hay (33:58.835)

But if you are someone who would love to have a little bit of help and who loves the idea of hiring an assistant or a junior designer or an administrative assistant, you know, even in those basic beginning stages, having a system for doing things will make it easier. Like I mentioned the onboarding, like the discovery call, I call it a discovery call when someone reaches out to us. That is something that I was able, I mean, I was still hosting the call, but I transferred ownership of all the tasks leading

Katie (34:04.388)

Hmm.

Katie (34:19.652)

Yeah.

Rebecca Hay (34:28.788)

up to that call and after to my administrator. So they were the person coordinating, sending the information, scheduling the phone call, then sending the follow -up, booking the consultation. And I was only able to off -board that to them because it was literally written on a piece of paper. Step one, do this. When client responds, send that. And that's what we're talking about about process. And I realize also not everyone listening knows what the heck we mean by systems.

Katie (34:32.708)

Brilliant. Brilliant.

Rebecca Hay (34:56.498)

Because I didn't go to business school like you did. I was like, what are systems? What?

Katie (34:56.964)

That's a great point.

Katie (35:01.604)

Well, even if you go to business school, it doesn't mean you always come out with a clear understanding of all these concepts. Let's be honest. But yeah, I mean, the idea, I love that. I mean, I'll take the impression, but let's be real here for a minute. No, not necessarily. But the idea of just putting things in order and thinking, what does this happen? It's almost like a flow chart. It's a yes, no, yes, no. And then you just ping pong your way down to the point of where you get to where you need to be. But you're right.

Rebecca Hay (35:07.826)

Well, that's my impression.

Rebecca Hay (35:19.442)

Yep.

Katie (35:28.324)

I want to focus on the emotional component that happened for you when you handled that off to someone else on your team to do the befores, the afters, sometimes even the durings. I mean, really what happened to you psychologically and emotionally as a person and then how did that change your business?

Rebecca Hay (35:43.091)

Whoa, deep question, Katie. Let me, let me, give me a minute. honestly, at first it was fear. At first it was fear. There was no immediate relief. Yeah. it was copy me on everything. Right?

Katie (35:46.756)

I know, I'll give you a minute.

Katie (35:54.98)

Very honest, very honest. It's hard to relinquish control of your baby. Yeah.

Katie (36:03.844)

Mmm.

Rebecca Hay (36:04.371)

I was micromanaging, looking at the email. Why'd you say this? I would say this. I would get them to send me the email first and I would retype it. So it was like, I was, it was like two people doing the same task. So it was a definitely fear of letting go of control and a fear that someone's going to make a mistake and it'll reflect on me. But once I was able to let them do that, and this is not the same person. I've had multiple people in this role and I've still managed to give up that control. It gets easier with every hire.

Katie (36:34.116)

for sure.

Rebecca Hay (36:34.387)

But there was relief. It was ease. It was joy. It was, I see I have a discovery call on Friday. Can you, you know, who's who's the call with? Right. Very different from, my God, I have to remember to respond to that person who sent that email. my gosh, shoot. I didn't reply to Joey's mom or whatever. So it was like fear and like tense, like, can I do this? And this is just one task.

Katie (36:37.892)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie (36:47.428)

Yeah.

Katie (36:58.692)

Mm -hmm, mm -hmm. Right.

Rebecca Hay (37:02.018)

to, yeah, I'm lighter. I don't even have to use brain space to think about discovery calls anymore. In our team meeting once a week, my team tells me, here are the leads that we've had, right, we use our Asana, we have a whole system, here are the leads that came through, these ones have booked a discovery call, these ones we're following up with. I was like, okay, great, now let's talk about projects. I didn't have to give it the same bandwidth. So it is a sense of relief and that is joyful to have that time back.

Katie (37:08.74)

Yeah...

Katie (37:21.956)

Mm.

Katie (37:29.828)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, because I love what you said about bandwidth, like bandwidth, I feel like, especially as creatives that whenever I have bandwidth, it goes to a creative space because that's my default, right? Like I want to go create to be able to have more creative space because there is bandwidth. That is a huge gift. That is a huge, huge, huge gift. What would you say as we wrap up today? That is one thing you want our audience to hear.

Rebecca Hay (37:48.305)

Yeah.

Katie (37:58.82)

when it comes to systems, processes, and leveling up your business.

Rebecca Hay (38:06.034)

There's no one size fits all to running a design business. There's no one size fits all. And so how Katie runs her business, how Rebecca runs her business, how Joe, you know, on Instagram runs his business, I don't know, Joe made them up. But you know, there is no one way. Hi, Joe, I look forward to meeting you. We'll have you on the podcast. We can all geek out. Yeah.

Katie (38:09.796)

Love that. Love that.

Katie (38:23.748)

Hi, Joe. Yeah, yeah. Maybe we'll see you at High Point.

Rebecca Hay (38:34.257)

But I think it's just to give yourself the grace to recognize there's not one way of doing things. And I realized that could be kind of, ugh, that's kind of deflating to hear that because you want to think there's an answer. But if you can learn from others who've gone before you, someone like Katie, someone like myself, find people who are doing what you want to do and learn from them. And then a...

Katie (38:34.756)

Katie (38:39.78)

Yeah.

Katie (38:43.428)

Sure. Yeah.

Katie (38:53.444)

Yes.

Rebecca Hay (38:59.857)

Adapt it to be your own because there is no one size fits all and if someone says do it my way this is the only way to do it I would question that because

Every business is different. Every one of us has a different personality. And I think especially I think I speak more to residential design than commercial because that's my area of expertise. It is I mean, it's a bit of the Wild West and we want to also as creatives be true to our own passions. And so what I say to students all the time is, you know, student A might love staging and they're building out a home staging business. And the other student student B is like, gosh, I do not.

Katie (39:17.188)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Katie (39:28.836)

Very fair.

Rebecca Hay (39:39.203)

interested in that like that's too quick turnaround like I want to do custom homes that's those are very different business models and so they require different processes but what I will say is even though there's no one size fits all every business needs a process it doesn't have to be mine but you need to find a system that works yeah

Katie (39:49.22)

Yeah.

Katie (39:53.444)

Yeah.

Katie (39:58.34)

Agreed. Agreed. Yes. And if you're not, you're losing time, you're losing money, and you're losing emotional space. And that is not a recipe for sustainability for you as a human being. You're just not going to be able to hang in there at that rate. So get after it. And then I love what you shared. Once you have success with one process, you're going to see how addictive processes become.

And really that's the catalyst to getting your business, whether to your point, which is a great one, whether you want to scale or not, maybe you want to stay a sole proprietor, but you don't want to think about your business every single weekend, do you? And whether or not you sent that email. So even having a process for yourself, so great to put it down on paper and get out there. love the.

Rebecca Hay (40:43.44)

Yeah, and it takes time. It takes time. You're not gonna get it overnight, right? It just starts one step at a time, one hour a week.

Katie (40:52.42)

I absolutely love that because we could say, yeah, I'm in a time block of week and just get through all my processes. I'm like, no, you're not, but that's adorable. Don't do that to yourself. You'll be dead at the end of the week on the inside. Like that is not a happy place for us creatives and you're never coming back again. Right? No, we have to do this in bits and pieces. It's like going to the gym. Here we are. Right? We can't go do 12 hours and expect a miracle. Same thing with your processes. Chisel away at it. Spend that half hour a week getting after it. Pick that one thing. I love that. Pick that one thing.

Rebecca Hay (40:59.376)

Yeah, it's not gonna happen.

Rebecca Hay (41:11.376)

Mm -hmm.

Rebecca Hay (41:15.856)

Yeah.

Katie (41:22.276)

that the first point of contact, start with something that just isn't going quite as well as you want it to, but is doable and get after it. Love this, Rebecca.

Rebecca Hay (41:28.626)

Yeah. Yeah. And you can really, you can do amazing things in business. Once you get yourself set up, you get yourself organized, you can really make waves. And I think that's what's really cool to see, you know, to see businesses that really just flourish and make more money.

Katie (41:44.068)

Yes.

Yes, and you don't have to have a master's degree to do it. You don't. I mean, that can be intimidating too, right? Like I love that I do, but you don't have to. Processes or something you don't have to go to grad school to figure out. You just start doing them. If you have questions about how to do them, yes, go hire Rebecca. She's great. Come see us for a coaching session. I would love to sit with you. Like, and let's figure out how to do it, right? Because we have to start eating that elephant. It may feel like an elephant, but it happens one bite at a time.

Rebecca Hay (42:15.057)

I mean, that expression though, can we just talk about that for one hot minute? Who eats elephants anyways? I've always wondered where that came from.

Katie (42:18.436)

Do it!

Katie (42:24.708)

I think it's a Chinese proverb actually. I know. Who is that? That's true. People, yeah, that would be horrible, wouldn't it? In all actuality. Girl, when you reflect on it like that, it's really depressing. I know they're way too cute. Yeah. Okay. So what should we go eat instead, Rebecca? We need to make this our own edition. No, you can eat what? Yeah, you can go eat that head of broccoli one bite at a time. That's what I should tell my children. My gosh, not even kidding you.

Rebecca Hay (42:33.073)

I just can't, the visual is just so bad.

Rebecca Hay (42:39.729)

Anyways, sorry. We digress. Let's go eat vegetables.

Rebecca Hay (42:49.297)

That's not a sec, yeah.

Two bites, did you have two bites? Yeah, anyways.

Katie (42:53.572)

Such a good conversation. Two bites. you do the two bites. That's awesome. No, mine will look at it and they'll be like, I can't, mom, I'm going to throw up. And then they'll like make themselves try to gag to try to throw. I'm like, are you kidding me? Are you really kidding me? We're still doing this at nine and seven. Yeah, we're still doing this at nine and seven. are they not? May that be our inspiration. Good gosh. So true.

Rebecca Hay (43:10.382)

Yep. Great actors.

Rebecca Hay (43:17.71)

I know, right? My gosh.

Katie (43:22.276)

Love this. Thank you so much for your time today and for sharing your expertise. It means more than you know. What a great conversation. And like I said, if you miss, don't miss out on the first part of the conversation. It's like the prequel. You gotta get the prequel. So check out the show notes for sure to hit the first part of our conversation. Thank you, Rebecca. This was fabulous.

Rebecca Hay (43:34.83)

Mm -hmm.

Rebecca Hay (43:39.694)

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Katie.