Marketing strategies for interior designers have certainly changed over the years. Yet, even when it comes to digital marketing, connecting with your audience still remains the most critical component! As you’ll hear in today’s roundtable discussion with Aaron Brown and Kari Jackson, people are longing for connection (and even literally searching for it online!). Your digital footprint allows you to provide that in a very meaningful and authentic way.

In today’s conversation, we cover everything from the best social media platform for your firm, to paid advertising, to differentiating yourself from the competition, and what metrics you should pay attention to to maximize your ROI. It’s 2024 and digital marketing reigns supreme! Grab your favorite beverage and notebook and get comfy—this episode is sure to have your attention. And stay tuned to find out how much of your budget you should be spending on marketing in today's Colorful Question!

In this episode, we cover:

• How to differentiate your firm in the crowded industry of interior design

• How your digital marketing efforts can create connections with potential clients

• What types of content interior designers should create to build trust & convert followers

• How you can showcase your expertise, experience, and authority as an interior designer

• How to capture peoples’ attention effectively on social media

• When it’s most important for you to spend money on marketing for your firm

• What you should be looking for in SEO reports provided to you by an expert

• Which KPI is the most important for interior designers and firms to pay attention to

• How to identify which social media platform your ideal clients are on

• If you should prioritize SEO or social media marketing first for your firm

• What you can do today to improve your website’s SEO

• What first steps to take with social media marketing

• How potential clients typically vet service providers like interior designers online

• If there’s value in paying to play in the digital marketing world

• What trends we’re seeing in the social media marketing world

• How to involve the entire design firm team in social media marketing

• How to balance being professional with being personable in your marketing

What surprised you about these best digital marketing practices for interior design firms? We’d love to hear your thoughts—find us online and share with us!

More about Aaron Brown

Aaron Brown is an accomplished digital marketer, website developer, and SEO expert. He has a keen understanding of both marketing and web development. This marriage of marketing skills and digital execution is a unique treasure. With Aaron's resourcefulness, technical finesse, and strategic mindset, he's not just a problem solver, he's the bridge between innovative ideas and their effective execution. 

More about Kari Jackson

Kari Jackson is a marketing, social media, copywriting, graphic design, systems, and procedures guru. She helps businesses with their marketing strategy by creating systems and processes to streamline workflows and projects within their business models. Kari plays multiple roles for each client to cater and showcase their best talents.

Links and Mentioned Resources

The Studio

Coaching Strategy Session

Design Your Success: 7 Steps to Master SEO for Your Interior Design Website

Connect with Aaron Brown

LinkedIn

Website

Connect with Kari Jackson

LinkedIn

Website

This episode is brought to you by Nello Marelli

Struggling to stay ahead with the ever-evolving design trends while running your business? Discover the secret weapon of the design world - the 2025 Nel Colore Color Trend Book. Crafted by the renowned Italian designer Nello Morelli, whose expertise guides luxury brands from Milan to Paris, this tool is now stateside with our partnership. Get exclusive access to future color trends, combinations, and sociological insights up to two years in advance, ensuring your designs stand out. Elevate your projects and leave the trend-watching to us. Find the Nel Colore Color Trend Book, along with a mini version, exclusively in The Studio. 

Connect with Katie Decker-Erickson

Book Your Coaching Strategy Session with Katie!

Business Coaching for Interior Designers

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More about Colorful Conversations with Katie

Welcome to “Colorful Conversations with Katie”! Join us for a vibrant webcast where we seamlessly blend the realms of design and business in a fun and professional setting. Available on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms!

Hosted by the dynamic Katie, a seasoned expert with nearly 20 years of experience in both fields, this engaging series promises to ignite your creative spark and sharpen your entrepreneurial acumen. From exploring the latest design trends to uncovering strategies for building successful ventures, we dive deep into the colorful world where aesthetics meet profitability.

Whether you’re a budding designer or a savvy entrepreneur, this webcast is your go-to source for inspiration, insights, and a dash of lively conversation. Tune in and let your imagination, business and life take flight!

This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you. 

This episode of Colorful Conversations with Katie is brought to you in partnership with Leah Bryant Co.

The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Colorful Conversations with Katie podcast follows

Katie (00:01.59)

Hey guys, welcome to the show.

Aaron Brown (00:04.772)

Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Kari Jackson (00:06.006)

Hey, thanks for having us.

Katie (00:08.034)

We are so excited that you are here. I love doing roundtables because it's so great to get different perspectives about the same topic and literally gather everybody in one space virtually. Yay, technology. But I wanna start off with, we obviously have SEO and we have social media represented today. So from each of your perspectives, and you've worked with our firm, interior design is a crowded space and how...

I'm starting out in my business or I've been around for a while but I've known I need to do social media and I need to do search engine and optimization or SEO. But how do I differentiate myself? That's like a really hard space to hang out in. Erin, do you wanna start us off?

Aaron Brown (00:50.724)

Sure, yeah, thanks for having me. It is a crowded space. And I think that two tactics you can do are to really niche down and then also just define your unique voice. So by niche down, I mean figure out something that's unique that you can offer that other people cannot offer nearly as well. And that could be your geography, where you're located, if it's just your town or there's not other interior designers around. Or it could be.

a particular topic that you do, maybe you specialize in a certain color palette. Maybe you specialize in a particular style of furniture. So find something that could be your niche that can really help set you apart. And then your unique voice, try to stand apart and be the best version of you can be. And that can be challenging because it feels risky for a lot of people. And so, however, when you go out and do a search for interior designer near me,

Katie (01:33.484)

Hmm.

Aaron Brown (01:49.312)

and see 20 results coming up, you need to look at that field and say, how can I stand apart from this field?

Katie (01:57.386)

Yeah, it's a great, great point. Carrie, how from the social perspective? Yeah.

Kari Jackson (01:58.998)

Yeah, I agree with a lot of what Erin said.

Kari Jackson (02:05.614)

I agree, I mean especially I think design people tend to be creative people by nature obviously so in the social media space we see a lot of your industry which is awesome because there's so many ideas, so many different styles, so many different personalities out there. That being said I think the best thing when you're presenting yourself and your business

is to be as genuine and as personalized as you can be. People want to work with people that they like and people that they trust, and by sharing your experiences in the field with other clients, with other customers, I think that's how you set yourself apart. People remember how they felt when they worked with professionals, and...

Katie (02:38.731)

Hmm.

Katie (03:01.315)

Hmm.

Kari Jackson (03:04.688)

A lot of people are very intimidated when it comes to design and things that they don't possess the talent to do themselves, and so I think they're intimidated. So I think making it a personal touch and just knowing that you're going to take it from here, being that one-stop shop and your questions are my questions and your goals are our goals. So.

So that's kind of my take. I also think just on the social media side, just being super consistent. People want to work with people that are consistent. You know, that they see, and they grow to kind of expect what you're gonna put out there. So I love that you do the blog. I love that you do the webcast. And that goes onto a whole nother topic of just the multilayering. I think you really can't pinhole.

Katie (03:43.67)

Hmm.

Katie (03:53.694)

So true.

Kari Jackson (04:04.588)

yourself into one area of social media marketing because your audience is everywhere. And you're really good at that.

Katie (04:11.948)

Yeah.

They're tapping into all sorts of areas. Oh, thank you. Well, that's because of you guys being on our team. And I'm always so thankful for the folks we have on our team, because you make it look easy. And it feels easy to me, which I absolutely love. I think you brought up a key point, too, about making it personal. And that's something, full disclosure, and I will always say this on the webcast and share where I'm at, but that's something I struggle with is it's letting, which everyone wants, but it's giving access to your personal life.

Kari Jackson (04:16.632)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (04:42.416)

because it humanizes you. It's not this talking head syndrome, right? And so it makes you real, and to your point, Carrie, relatable so it doesn't feel like, oh, there's someone who does design and I'm not.

Kari Jackson (04:43.922)

Mm-hmm.

Kari Jackson (04:50.858)

Yeah.

Katie (04:54.514)

there. It makes it human. It makes it approachable. It removes those barriers of like, oh gosh, their kids are a hot mess about playing out in the snow or whatever as well. It's not just me or they have a quirky husband who does crazy things at their house too. Like how my husband put out a dryer ball and set my glasses on it and made a whole face with a book. I'm like, I feel like I was on a cruise ship. Like, you know, those are the sweet moments though that I think are fun to share because they do make it real. Let me go back

Aaron Brown (05:15.992)

I'm going to go to bed.

Kari Jackson (05:17.194)

Hehehehe

Katie (05:24.89)

What types of content do you feel interior designers should create in order to capture that attention? And we know it's all about building trust and then conversion We have to have the conversion because it's great to pour money into market But I marketing but I feel like that's where a lot of designers toggle back because they are like well I had this SEO person once and I don't really know what they did and

I don't know if I got more clients from that or not. How do we get over that and start seeing the direct correlation?

Aaron Brown (05:56.484)

Sure. Great question. So from SEO in general, specifically to content, I think there are some bottom line things that you just have to have to get into interior design. One is going to be good pictures of your work. So on your website, you're going to need some sort of pictures of your work, and you're going to need to describe it well. You're going to need to say, this is what I did, and this is why I took it from before to after. Your guys' industry lends itself so well to befores and afters. And that's.

Katie (06:24.651)

Yes.

Aaron Brown (06:25.728)

a quick way to communicate with people, this is what I can do for you. When it comes to SEO, SEO is an offshoot of marketing in general, right? And luckily, Google and Bing and their algorithms have changed over the years to get away from some formulaic thing that we're trying to like crack the black box to just being more good old fashioned marketing. And it's about providing helpful, good content on your site. So

Katie (06:51.18)

Mmm.

Aaron Brown (06:52.304)

Can you produce any sort of content on your site that is showing that you have firsthand experience in it? So you can speak to it in the first person, share your experiences, like Kerry said, or your customer's experiences, that will separate you apart from other people. Shows you have expertise in the field. So you've got expert content that's using really rich keywords that matter for interior designers.

Katie (07:09.377)

Yeah.

Aaron Brown (07:20.164)

Does it show that you have expertise in the sense of your degrees and titles? Do you have engaged users on the site maybe providing some content for you, right? Whether that's a guest post or they're giving reviews and ratings. And then anything in your content that's gonna add to your authority, right? So that's like, you have a great depth of content or breadth of content. All of it is high quality and it's answering some question that they came in with, right? Google's main job.

Katie (07:25.423)

Mm-mm.

Katie (07:37.919)

Yes.

Kari Jackson (07:40.341)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (07:48.436)

is while Google's main job is to make a lot of money for their investors, right? And the way that they do that, the way that they do that is they convince us that they are the absolute best source to go to get answers for stuff, right? And so for them, they have to make sure that they're providing the best answers. Otherwise we're gonna not come back to them anymore. And the way that they try to do that then is provide the most helpful content possible. So if you wanna rank well,

Katie (07:52.167)

That's very true.

Katie (08:02.882)

That's true too.

Kari Jackson (08:04.878)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (08:17.236)

and you want to show up in the top of the results ahead of your competitors, then you need to prove that you're the best answer to the question. Right. And the questions for interior design are things like, you know, interior designer near me or Southwestern interior designer, or, you know, just whatever phrases that people are really looking for that something triggered in them, right. They have a journey of, I'm wondering if I should have an interior designer come and do this. I'm feeling overwhelmed or I've always wanted to have an interior designer. Right.

Kari Jackson (08:31.65)

Okay.

Katie (08:31.714)

Mmm.

Katie (08:38.253)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (08:46.468)

They're starting with some set of questions and then ending up at your site, hopefully, right? And so that whole journey is gonna go from search and social and all of these other signals that exist today to end up with you. So the content on your site has to be able to answer those questions, right? And it has to do it in a high quality, helpful kind of way. Websites, you used to be able to get away with having sort of a brochure website, right? It just describes who you are, what you do. Nowadays,

Katie (09:03.863)

Hmm.

Katie (09:12.694)

Sure.

Kari Jackson (09:14.911)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (09:15.8)

It's more about who you are, what you do. Those are just like the barrier to entry. You have to have those. And then on top of that, you just need to answer people's questions, right? You need to be as helpful as possible and think ahead to what are those questions that are gonna bring them to your site? Part of it's gonna be what's your experience? How come I can trust you over other people? What are you gonna offer me that others don't? Or to Kerry's point, if you can get there, this is sort of the really high end good stuff is,

Katie (09:22.859)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (09:39.278)

Hmm.

Aaron Brown (09:45.688)

How do you make me feel when I come to your site? Does it feel like a good fit that I can tell just right away, like this person gets me and I like their style, right?

Katie (09:47.714)

Mmm.

Kari Jackson (09:55.41)

Mm. Yeah.

Katie (09:56.178)

Mm-hmm. It reminds me of the old Maya Angelou quote when she said, they will never remember what you said, but they will remember how you made them feel. And I think that's so true, especially with clients. They're looking back again to connection and communication. It's such an important thing. Carrie, it's a little bit different on the social media side, because you're getting a snapshot in time. We're seeing the social media timeframes shrink, as our attention spans shrink, shrink.

Aaron Brown (10:05.848)

Mm-hmm.

Kari Jackson (10:24.566)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (10:25.452)

a limited time to capture and do. How do you do that?

Kari Jackson (10:32.758)

Very good question, and I do think it's shrinking. And it's not even just the time, it's like just the trends and the algorithms. It's constantly changing. And I think always going to the basics and making sure that you're called to action or your intended piece of content, your topic is very clear.

Katie (10:53.464)

Hmm.

Katie (11:02.113)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (11:03.412)

the focus of your image, the focus of your video, it's clear, and a lot of people listen without volume. A lot of people don't read the captions. You really have to cover all of your bases. Is it easy to see what the point is? Is it easy to catch on as you're listening to what the point is? And you go into that, everyone learns differently,

Katie (11:13.32)

Yes.

Kari Jackson (11:32.732)

listens differently, everyone retains things differently. So I think by having that variety too is important. So it's really not about having these long elaborate videos or it's and I think the more we get into technology the more we are wired to for that quick action.

Katie (11:36.553)

Yes.

Katie (11:47.862)

Yeah.

Katie (11:57.326)

Hmm. Yeah.

Kari Jackson (12:02.732)

we maybe would have wanted to do this very elegant like page turning, you know, presentation, whereas now you can get the same point across, just, yeah, just, you know, with a quick, quick roll through slideshow.

Katie (12:09.398)

Digital catalog, yeah.

Katie (12:21.11)

I think that point is so well made. I mean, especially about everyone's consuming in a different way. Like I remember when my kids were little and I would be sitting there at two in the morning breastfeeding and you can darn bloody well be bet and there was no sound going on. And if you had, I would be sitting there looking and if you had captions and you were giving me text, I was your new best friend. But if you were just a talking mouth, it was a boop, swipe right, we're moving on. It was just very,

Kari Jackson (12:37.811)

I'm sorry.

Katie (12:51.404)

understanding your market. Again, this is understanding your market and knowing where they're gonna meet you. It's also back.

to kind of that ROI and metrics. I feel like when we talk about marketing, a lot of firms don't invest in it because they don't see that direct return on investment or they don't see those exact conversion rates. And especially when times, when economics are as such, like where interest rates are high, maybe people aren't moving as much, maybe it has impacted your firm. That makes you even less inclined to spend marketing money, which is actually the time when you need to be spending it more so your top of consciousness

when that log jam kind of breaks. How do, what metrics should you be looking for, Erin, when it comes to SEO? What should your SEO provider be providing to you beyond a bill every month that says, I optimized your site? Because I once had somebody do that, and I was like, how?

Aaron Brown (13:45.145)

Hahaha

Kari Jackson (13:46.819)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (13:47.174)

Why? When? I had so many questions and this is why I was very glad to find you through a great referral and to go, oh you have pages of data that actually make sense to me. This is what I'm paying for. What should they be looking for? At a minimum what should your SEO person be providing to you?

Aaron Brown (13:56.568)

Ha ha!

Kari Jackson (13:57.349)

Mm-hmm

Aaron Brown (14:09.624)

Yeah, they should be showing measurable impact, right? So I don't like to pursue vanity numbers, right? Vanity numbers are those ones that just make you feel good. Like, oh, we drove 10,000 views to your site or your podcast got a million listens. It just doesn't matter. The question you should be asking them to answer is, how much business did you bring me, right? How many clients can you connect to your work?

Katie (14:17.684)

Yes.

Katie (14:27.662)

Totally.

Katie (14:33.59)

Yeah.

Aaron Brown (14:37.908)

That's the bottom line, right? And it's hard to measure that, particularly in interior design, right? Where a lead is gonna come in possibly over the phone in a way that's not as trackable as say a form submission or something that's more, you know, has a digital footprint to it, but there are ways to do it. And so they should be looking at how can they connect the dots to lead to, you know, this effort led to this traffic that led to this customer. And whatever that...

Katie (14:46.24)

Yeah.

Aaron Brown (15:05.956)

performance indicator is for you, that's what they need to be reporting on. In interior design, I believe that's customers. So how many customers did we earn this month from our work? And Kerry said something really key to the content point that you asked earlier is you've got to have calls to action on your website. I would really encourage interior designers to think of their

Katie (15:18.562)

Yeah.

Katie (15:27.43)

Yes, yes.

Kari Jackson (15:30.395)

Mm-hmm. Ahem.

Aaron Brown (15:35.652)

Direct marketing, direct marketing meaning there's going to be some sort of direct response to it. It's not just we're going to build this and hope that they come. Instead, it's we're doing this so that we get a direct response that we can measure from it. So on the website, you have things that are, so glad that you're here. Here's our stuff. This is how I do it. And call me today. Or if you're interested to get more, fill out this. Like some thing.

Kari Jackson (16:04.366)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (16:05.144)

that's going to interest them to give you some piece of information that you can start following up with them on, right? You have to have a call to action. Otherwise it's like you had this great first date and then they didn't call. Right. Just a call. That would have been nice. I think I liked that person. Right.

Kari Jackson (16:16.11)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (16:17.078)

Worst feeling ever. Yeah. No, I think call to actions are critical. I mean, we've even, we just call them CTAs. Like every time my team assigns me a blog post to produce, it's blog post, a space for the title, and then in parentheses, CTA. So I don't forget, you've got to have the call to action because you should always be driving the business. And to your point too, Erin.

Kari Jackson (16:19.731)

I'm sorry.

Aaron Brown (16:37.604)

Yeah, right.

Kari Jackson (16:38.739)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (16:42.034)

I think it's such a good one. We don't always know how people come in. We started making that a standard part of when people call the firm. Hey, so glad that you called. How did you hear about us? And it's they love to tell us they're like, oh, I found you on Google or or, you know, Jane Doe referred us and we just loved how our kitchen turned out. Like, it's always interesting to me where these leads do come from. And it's sometimes places you wouldn't expect, but they love. It's a nice icebreaker. In addition to gathering it.

Kari Jackson (16:52.362)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (16:53.06)

Yeah, right.

Aaron Brown (16:59.798)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (17:07.129)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (17:11.948)

tell we have found. And so we like to ask right off the bat, hey, thanks so much for calling. How'd you hear about us? Like, it's a great, not necessarily to your point about KPIs, we don't always document it and keep track of it, which honestly we probably should. But we know, okay, this is where we're seeing that come in. Carrie, how about metrics for you in the social world? Because I feel like, not to be cliche, but it can be like nailing jello to a wall.

Aaron Brown (17:14.349)

Hmm.

Kari Jackson (17:14.972)

Mm-hmm.

Kari Jackson (17:19.566)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (17:22.639)

Sure.

Kari Jackson (17:35.134)

Mm-hmm, absolutely. And like we've talked about before, I think we've kind of touched on it, but maybe not so much, but different demographics.

Katie (17:45.739)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (17:45.99)

are on different platforms. So, you know, your numbers on, and of course we've got the two sides to your particular business, and you know, we've even seen that those numbers between the two businesses can be very different, sometimes even opposite, in that our target demographic is, you know, primarily on LinkedIn. I think you make great connections on LinkedIn for the firm side. I think it's, you know, it's remarkable.

Katie (18:04.194)

Yeah.

Katie (18:08.632)

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Kari Jackson (18:15.824)

and it's definitely the best place for your niche market, for your avatar client looking in that commercial space and multifamily and...

that's definitely the best place. Our analytics are better there, our growth is better there, and our consistency, it's pretty solid. And then I think too with the social platforms, the algorithms are changing constantly. So I honestly don't put just a ton of value in those because I don't ever really feel like we're comparing apples to apples from month to month.

Katie (18:36.098)

Yep.

Katie (19:00.294)

No doubt.

Kari Jackson (19:00.9)

because one month Instagram wants you to do this, and then one month Facebook is prioritizing video, and then you hear now that it's the stories. It is very hard, so I wouldn't want anyone to base big decisions off of a very short-term analysis of data on social platforms, because it is hard. But I do a lot of work

Katie (19:11.189)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (19:31.52)

and kind of to your point that Erin was saying and you had said too that like this is not the time, you know, to be slowing down, like the market is changing. I tell my clients consistently that...

Katie (19:32.802)

Hmm.

Katie (19:40.929)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (19:49.554)

we have to use our social media platforms as essentially a billboard. It's the first place anyone goes to do any research along with Google. They're going to, do they have a Facebook page? Are they on Instagram? If somebody wants to refer someone, more than likely they're gonna send over an Instagram reel or and say, hey, look at this, I meant to tell you they did so-and-so's kitchen. So just making sure that your social presence

Katie (19:54.091)

Yeah.

Katie (20:12.611)

Hmm.

Kari Jackson (20:20.108)

portraying the vision that you want for your business. It's kind of like a billboard is how I explain it. You know, what you go in there, you gotta look live, you have to be active and consistent. I mean, you don't need to be in there every day four or five times a day, but just be consistent. Show that you're actively working on your business, you actively have clients that are happy with your work.

Aaron Brown (20:32.472)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (20:36.831)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (20:47.178)

reporting great things, and you're able to answer those questions. Whether people are acting or not, they still have questions. They're gonna be using this time to research and collect data, collect data, and figure out where their next move might be.

Katie (20:54.402)

They always do.

Katie (21:03.382)

Well, and I think too, that's such a good point. And it's just not being desperate and not being knee jerk. They are gonna watch your social media presence if you're consistent in that, that directly reflects on your business. Oh, they're consistent. They just come, go, come, go as they happen to have some extra marketing dollars lining around. It's actually an intentionality of this is what we're looking to spend on marketing this year. This is how we're gonna do it. We know what our target market is. We know where to find them. Man, that's just critical to be able to do that and show up for that.

Kari Jackson (21:16.735)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (21:29.797)

Mm-hmm.

Kari Jackson (21:30.702)

Thanks for watching!

Katie (21:33.316)

I was starting my firm, it was very overwhelming. I'm like, well, I can't afford social media and then SEO and then, and then, and then. And that was like a really hard thing to choose, like where do I niche down and where do I go? And man, it just comes back to knowing that target market again, because they're all consuming.

Aaron Brown (21:40.208)

Hmm.

Kari Jackson (21:41.493)

Mm.

Kari Jackson (21:47.97)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (21:54.61)

in different ways to Erin's point of it's not just a brochure that's your website anymore. There needs to be a hey, hi, glad you're here. We're really here to help you. We would really love to help you give us a call today to help you like it's

Kari Jackson (22:00.558)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (22:06.87)

such a different format than it used to be and knowing where it is spent. And I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. We started with SEO way back in the day. Um, and that was almost 20 years ago. Um, and now there's this whole new world and things are moving so fast. Maybe I sound really old saying that, but just the advent of TikTok and like, there's just this turn that if you're in this and you're solo preneuring and you're just starting out on your own. Oh my gosh. It's like drinking.

Kari Jackson (22:12.204)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (22:27.47)

Hehehe

Katie (22:36.804)

out of a fire hydrant. I'm curious from each of your respective modalities where do you think you should start? If I'm like gosh I'm Katie and I'm just starting out and I just hung out my shingle and I'm really proud to do this and I need to get the word out but where do I start? Because this is a lot.

Aaron Brown (22:57.441)

I would say things you can do today that you can check these off if you haven't done them yet. From search would be make sure you check your digital footprint. Do a search for your brand name. If you pull that up, you'll see how you're listed. You'll see maybe a side panel for you. Make sure that you're able to curate that the way that you want it to be. How do you look? That's the curb

Katie (23:02.295)

Yeah.

Katie (23:20.28)

Mm.

Aaron Brown (23:24.644)

How do I look when I type in my name? That's what people are going to see. Is it attractive enough and compelling enough that they're going to walk through that front door? And so that would be getting a Google Business Profile set up, having places listing, starting to solicit for, not solicit, but just ask your customers for reviews and ratings. Those can be done on Google or Yelp or Facebook or Howes in your guys' industry.

Kari Jackson (23:25.051)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (23:25.319)

Yes.

Katie (23:46.443)

Absolutely.

Kari Jackson (23:52.073)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (23:53.472)

any partners that you have to link to your website to try to help you get some more trust and authority with search engines is a good idea. Plus, that's traffic that could legitimately come into your site. Those are some little things you can do today. And you have control over those. Those aren't things that are only being done on your behalf or out of your control. You can control those things. Yeah, and I would reiterate.

Katie (24:09.922)

Very much so.

Kari Jackson (24:12.415)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (24:17.998)

Those are great. Those are really great.

Aaron Brown (24:20.476)

niching down and really just thinking through people's questions, you know, people want to, like you said, be heard, Katie, and understood when you create a niche and you pursue that, you can now speak to them, you know, more uniquely. You can say, I understand you're a unique problem, because we all think that we're, we all think we're unique and that we all have unique problems, right? But it feels.

Katie (24:37.526)

Hmm. Yep.

Kari Jackson (24:39.83)

Mm-hmm

Katie (24:43.478)

So disappointing that we're not.

Aaron Brown (24:47.928)

But for search, if you have a page that specifically addresses, say you've got a niche of you work in Arizona and you do a lot of Southwestern feel things, you can address those specifically and say, we understand this particular marketplace. And then when somebody's searching around, you become the easy choice over other interior designers who may also understand the Southwest appeal, but they don't have this huge experience or focus on it like you do.

Kari Jackson (25:06.946)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (25:17.1)

Yeah, so if you can change your content to help people understand that you get them, you're speaking to them uniquely, and you can create separate pages for that, great. But yeah, reviews and ratings, Google Business Profile, Bing Places listing, check your own footprint and see what it looks like.

Katie (25:32.706)

That's great. And Carrie, I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this. But I know I sound like the broken record, but I'm constantly saying, if you're trying to be everything to everyone, you are nothing to no one. Find your lane and drive the hell out of it is my recommendation. You've got to figure out who you're going after and get going down that road. Carrie, how would you respond to that question?

Kari Jackson (25:43.886)

Mm-hmm.

Kari Jackson (25:47.804)

Yep.

Aaron Brown (25:54.318)

Mm-hmm.

Kari Jackson (25:55.854)

Yeah, and even to expand on that, I mean, I feel like when we try to speak to everyone...

were just kind of that Charlie Brown teacher, you know, that doesn't really grasp anyone's attention. You know, it all just seems very cliché and robotic and I think sometimes you feel like you're giving, um, not giving up on or you're, um, like, limiting yourself, um, by, by niching down, but really...

Aaron Brown (26:07.908)

Hehehehe

Katie (26:11.184)

Yes.

Katie (26:24.642)

Hmm.

Aaron Brown (26:27.309)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (26:27.318)

Mm-hmm.

Kari Jackson (26:30.286)

I feel like those aren't your people anyway. Like if this is your specialty, if this is where your primary focus and your primary superpowers are, then you know, niching down and targeting that audience is going to be so much more rewarding than trying to appease everyone. So definitely on that. And when it comes to like, so where do you start? I would say to start where you're most comfortable.

Katie (26:34.546)

Yeah, the tire kickers.

Aaron Brown (26:37.776)

Thank you.

Katie (27:00.459)

Mm, I like that.

Kari Jackson (27:00.52)

Where are your sphere of influence, your friends and family, and maybe if you've had a few clients under your belt, where are they hanging out? Are they on Facebook? Are they on Instagram? If you work more on a business side of the design, then maybe LinkedIn is more fit for you. But I would encourage someone to really choose one and really do your very best work.

Aaron Brown (27:00.688)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (27:11.372)

Yep.

Katie (27:28.928)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (27:30.18)

there and then when you feel like your profile is working you know everything's current everything's up to date you've got you know your mission statement your contact information links to your portfolio links to your website reviews when you have all of those things covered and you've got a well oiled machine then it would be very easy to tack on Instagram or tack on another

Katie (27:55.436)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (27:58.774)

platform if you want to but I would just choose one and in full speed ahead.

Katie (28:05.422)

Well, because I will tell you, even as a consumer, regardless of what I'm looking for, if I see the social media icons at the bottom of a website and I click on one and it was updated circa the War of 1812, I don't feel like they're gonna be current in their industry. So rather than seeing a bevy of social media icons at the bottom, I would see one really great Instagram. When I click on them, I'm like, okay, they know their target audience, they know what they're showing up for, I can get a capability.

Aaron Brown (28:16.674)

Hahaha

Kari Jackson (28:16.974)

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Kari Jackson (28:21.291)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (28:27.255)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (28:34.338)

Gauge of what they can do like that alone can be a tipping point Instead of having six icons that are like well They got on their last year Especially I feel like in the last five years We've just seen the world change so quickly and back to attention spans being fast things are moving much faster I feel like too as far as consumption which brings up the point of paid advertising This is the big question. Do you pay to play when it comes to the?

Kari Jackson (28:37.111)

Yep.

Kari Jackson (28:43.266)

Absolutely.

Kari Jackson (28:53.795)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (29:03.566)

digital world, is there value in paying to play, or are the search engines and all the little bots getting sophisticated enough to say, no, we wanna seek out organic content. And this is kind of a double-edged sword if you're in the business of making money. To your point, you know, Erin of Google wants to make money. What's better than paid advertising? Yeah, but they gotta be authentic still and actually provide good content. So do I pay to play or do I pass?

Aaron Brown (29:18.099)

Hmm.

Kari Jackson (29:26.412)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (29:30.048)

It depends. I think you should test it and try it. I mean, it really boils down to what is your ROI on that, right? So if your margin on a customer is $10,000, you can afford to pay for a lot of clicks, right? If it's costing you a dollar a click and you get 100 clicks, but you have a 1% close rate, you only paid $100 for that customer that's going to make you $10,000. So was that worth it? Absolutely. But if your close rate is.050,

Katie (29:33.164)

Yeah.

Katie (29:44.66)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (29:44.662)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (29:56.598)

That's good marketing math right there.

Aaron Brown (30:01.408)

But if your close rate is 0.001 percent, well now you paid $10,000 for a $10,000 customer, that was not probably worth it. You have to figure that out. At least in the interior design industry, the clients do have a higher margin, so there's a better chance that advertising could work. You just need to really target, you need to target closely and understand your customers. Where are they? What are they interested in?

who are the most valuable ones. And if you're just starting out, you're not going to know some of that stuff, right? And so you're going to need to just test it. I would say this is getting very specific, but inside of things like Google Ads and Bing Ads, they want you to do the simplest route forward, which is just sort of this entry flow. You pick a few keywords, and they say, great, we're going to create your ads. And they'll create the ads using AI, and then you just go.

Katie (30:39.102)

Yeah, do it. Yeah.

Katie (30:50.562)

Hmm

Aaron Brown (30:55.168)

And they make it just very simple to spend a tremendous amount of money. But you're just, you know, unless you're able to measure that return and know somebody came in from that ad. Right. I would recommend instead clicking on the, you know, no, I'm going to just figure out how to do this in an advanced way and be an advanced user. So click on that advanced setup and then pick phrases that are more specific to you, right? Don't do broad match. Do phrase match phrases and things that limit.

Katie (30:59.822)

It's a very successful business model.

Kari Jackson (31:04.2)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (31:19.522)

Hmm.

Aaron Brown (31:22.896)

Because otherwise, Google is going to try to show your ad to just as broad a group of people as possible. Instead, really ratchet it down and say, I only want people who are searching for this specific phrase. And if that means I only get in front of 100 people instead of 100,000, that's fine. Because again, I don't need to feel good about 100,000 people seeing my ad. That won't make me feel good or put food on my table. What makes me feel good is that somebody came in and became a customer from it.

Kari Jackson (31:26.091)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (31:44.237)

Right.

Kari Jackson (31:51.403)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (31:52.208)

Through ads, you can definitely track that. You can use display advertising. Google Performance Max is shown. I've become sort of a convert to Google Performance Max, which is one of their particular packages that shows everywhere. It shows up in your Gmail. It shows up in news feeds. It shows up on search, also in display ads on other people's sites. It can be pretty effective. We're coming into a cookie-less world, a third-party cookie-less world, which is gonna help, well.

Katie (32:08.098)

Hmm.

Katie (32:11.266)

Hmm.

Katie (32:20.703)

Really?

Aaron Brown (32:22.004)

but it's also going to drive conversion rates down a little bit. Yeah, it's starting very soon, like in weeks. And so when that happens...

Katie (32:26.27)

Ah, speak to that. That's brand breaking news for me.

Aaron Brown (32:32.9)

Sure. In years past since cookies were first invented many, many years ago, they became very effective at following you around the web. And so if I visit Levi's and then I go to Facebook, now I'm seeing Levi's ads. And I think, what the heck? How in the world did they do that? And it might not even be a Levi's ad from Levi's. That's right. It might be a Levi's ad from Macy's or something, whatever it is. That's.

Katie (32:52.086)

I have a stalker.

Kari Jackson (32:54.806)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (32:58.936)

Yep.

Aaron Brown (33:01.368)

because they're sharing that information, they're leaving this little breadcrumb trail. You are leaving a breadcrumb trail. They're sucking it up, right? And so they get all of that information together, and then they have a really amazingly detailed profile of you on the web. And so they can serve you very targeted ads, right? We've shifted. Yeah, it's creepy, but from a marketing perspective, it fits everything we've talked about here. Finding your target, the ones that...

Katie (33:09.516)

Hmm.

Katie (33:16.91)

Creepy, very creepy but real.

Kari Jackson (33:20.352)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (33:26.218)

Also true.

Aaron Brown (33:27.828)

You speak their language and they speak your language. So it's like, we love it as marketers, but we hate it as consumers. And so we don't hate it as consumers because we don't like seeing ads that are totally not applicable to us. Any case, you know, everybody in, especially the EU started it and then pushed it over here to America is we want more privacy. We want to have control over who has our information and what they're doing with it. So Chrome is coming out.

Kari Jackson (33:29.187)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (33:50.21)

Hmm.

Aaron Brown (33:56.576)

in a few weeks with getting rid of third party cookies. So when that happens, those advertisers won't have that breadcrumbs trail anymore, which means now they see Katie browsing. And they can make some specific things about she's on the Levi's site, so we'll show her Levi's ads here. But when you go to Facebook, they won't know anymore that you were browsing the Levi's site. So those ads are going to become less personable. They're going to have to go off of, if you're on Facebook and they're advertising to you,

Katie (34:17.439)

Oh wow.

Kari Jackson (34:17.86)

Mm.

Aaron Brown (34:26.276)

they're going to have to use whatever information they already have about you and know about you. It will be more general, right? It won't be the red sweater that you just looked at over on target. So we expect conversion rates to go down, maybe 20% to 30%. We'll see. When Apple tightened up their privacy, people on Facebook experienced about a 20% to 30% decline in their conversion rates. So all the more reason to be niche.

Katie (34:30.119)

interesting.

Katie (34:36.172)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (34:36.31)

interesting.

Aaron Brown (34:56.008)

and to have a site that can close well, that focuses on direct response, that has calls to action. You've got to have these things now more than ever as we get into this third party Criculous world.

Kari Jackson (34:56.429)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (34:56.461)

Hmm.

Kari Jackson (35:09.038)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (35:09.078)

That's fascinating. And speaking of those trends, Carrie.

Aaron Brown (35:10.54)

But yes, it can be worth it. It absolutely can be worth it.

Katie (35:14.1)

Okay.

Spend it, spend it wisely. Know your why. Know how much you wanna spend and come at it. Carrie, I wanna talk trends, cause it's a great conversation. We talk trends in design industry all the time. What trends are you seeing in the social world? And it was interesting, I was actually reading about how Taylor Swift's company is pulling a lot of her stuff off TikTok these days. And TikTok of course has been very controversial. But what trends are we seeing? And where are socials going?

Kari Jackson (35:19.086)

I'm sorry.

Katie (35:44.652)

I feel like there's a strong push for differentiation by platform.

Kari Jackson (35:50.09)

I do too. I feel like I've read a lot more of that. And I think when it comes to the differentiation, that's kind of a hard word to say. It is, it's.

Katie (35:59.396)

It's a mouthful.

Kari Jackson (36:01.762)

To me, I feel like it goes back to, it's a, you're speaking to a different audience. So like, sometimes as a social media marketer, you know, we will, you know, use the same video that's a reel on, in fact, I put our reels on LinkedIn. Obviously, a reel is not created for LinkedIn. It's not optimized for our LinkedIn audience, but it's great content. It's a video. It changes up our content in LinkedIn.

Katie (36:08.418)

Mmm.

Katie (36:18.263)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (36:22.615)

Sure.

Katie (36:27.362)

Hmm.

Kari Jackson (36:31.776)

on LinkedIn so that they're not always reading a long form blog or article, they see a glimpse. Video shares a little bit more character, a little bit more personality with it. So, but I do think that's interesting that I do get the vibe that things need to be tweaked a little bit. Like, yeah, you can put a video on TikTok, but the educational video that you put on Instagram

Katie (36:33.314)

Yeah.

Katie (36:39.906)

Yep.

Katie (36:53.108)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (37:02.196)

outlining the top five reasons for X, Y, or Z may not do so well on TikTok unless it's reformatted in some way. Because that's just a little bit, I picture TikTok is a little bit more entertainment. And Instagram is a little bit more educational, and it's obviously, we go there for entertainment too. But, so I think that's where that differentiation.

Katie (37:11.03)

Hmm.

Katie (37:17.07)

Totally.

Kari Jackson (37:28.694)

you know, comes about. When it comes to trends, I feel like it's anything right now, I think the more personal you can be, the better. It's the live video.

Katie (37:38.263)

Hmm.

Kari Jackson (37:40.69)

It's the stories, I mean, and I see a lot of really, really good marketers that probably have 15 to 20 stories a day, but we're talking, it's like, you know, it's like four of them before they've even started their day, it's their coffee, it's maybe their, you know, their daily affirmation, their, you know.

Katie (37:50.195)

Oh, wow.

Kari Jackson (38:04.97)

I don't know, everyone kind of finds their own pattern, but I do think, and I have read recently, that those stories are where the, not so much engagement, but the impressions are at. I do like, yeah, I do like the engagement on stories. The only option is a direct message.

Katie (38:09.582)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (38:19.906)

But connection, yeah.

Katie (38:30.359)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (38:30.522)

So when people, if you ask a question, or you stir up engagement in a story, and they reply, it comes to you in a DM. Whereas when people comment on a stationary post or a reel, it is posted as a comment, which doesn't necessarily generate your need to reply. But when someone sends you something in a DM,

Katie (38:41.434)

Hmm.

Katie (38:53.293)

Mm.

Kari Jackson (38:56.33)

to me that is an open door to start a narrative with them. So I do think that is another big piece of the story that is making it way more viable. And it feels challenging.

Katie (38:56.609)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (39:13.482)

But I really think stories can be as simple as you make it. People just want a little glimpse of your life and what is behind the scenes and things that can feel very private, you know, and maybe even feel like, why would anyone care? They just like to see, it's like seeing your teacher at Walmart, you know, the kids see the teacher at Walmart and they're like, oh my God, she leaves, yes, like she, yes.

Katie (39:20.942)

Hmm.

Katie (39:30.818)

That's where I get stuck. Yes. It's an out-of-body experience, man. I remember that when I was a kid. She shops. Totally.

Aaron Brown (39:39.62)

Hehe

Kari Jackson (39:44.436)

Yes, yes, and it's the same thing. We see these businesses and we see this, because that's all we see. But when we can give them a little bit, it feels extra special and it gets their attention.

Aaron Brown (39:48.496)

Shoo shoo.

Katie (39:49.274)

Uh...

Katie (39:53.237)

Yeah.

Katie (40:02.774)

I wonder how much of this too is a holdover from COVID. Yeah, go for it, Erin.

Aaron Brown (40:03.716)

Who, Carrie, who would you say?

Aaron Brown (40:08.669)

I was just wondering who Kerry would say would be the spokesperson for that if you're if you're at a firm that has more than One person right if it's not just solopreneur who's given those stories

Kari Jackson (40:18.213)

Mm-hmm. Great question. I think it would be...

super fun for everyone to be able, you know, maybe a designer shoots a little behind the scenes or they're on their way to be on, you know, on site that day. Another person could, is maybe working at a table and putting pieces and samples together, exploring different flooring, exploring different wallpaper books, whatever. People just want to see, like, oh, it doesn't just come to you like this and you just lay it here and it's done. No. Like, you know, you're moving.

Katie (40:40.802)

Hmm.

Katie (40:45.303)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (40:52.332)

So I think even someone working behind the scenes. And then, I mean, of course, they want to hear from Katie. They want to hear from the designer that they love and follow. It is.

Katie (41:07.126)

which is hard for me. Like, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, yeah.

Kari Jackson (41:13.042)

And I can see where it does, it's hard to find a good balance. Because you want to present yourself as a professional and with credibility and the authority and the experience. So it's not like you want to just post anything and everything.

Katie (41:19.029)

It is.

Katie (41:23.765)

Yes.

Katie (41:29.676)

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Kari Jackson (41:39.01)

But people like to be able to relate to you. And like Erin had said, sometimes, you know, it might be a little bit intimidating. Like, I picture, I mean, I love design, and I like to tinker around my own home, but to hire a designer would probably be kind of intimidating for me, you know? Like, I don't want it to be all, you know, hoity-toity and look like a country club in here. But you know what I mean? Like, I feel like we all have our own, like,

Katie (41:43.582)

I think that's very fair.

Katie (41:48.972)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (41:56.194)

Hmm. Sure.

Katie (42:09.124)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (42:09.94)

I don't know, concerns, but like as you see, oh my God, they're a real person. Like their house is fun too. And you know what? Their laundry basket is on their coffee table too. And it's okay. She's not turning inside out, you know? Like, yeah.

Katie (42:20.41)

Oh, yeah. Nope. It's so true. Well, I think too, like the whole reason I started the webcast was to come in here and share.

Kari Jackson (42:27.594)

Yeah.

Katie (42:31.09)

my experiences and share the mistakes and share what I have learned with other people and empower especially because our industry is so dominated by women but empower them to go forth and do and create and be and you can do this. But then what's hard and what a lot of people may not realize is I'm really introverted on the inside. So for every hour I spend hanging out and pushing this out I need an hour by myself which is so hard with children that doesn't always happen which is why sometimes at night

and he has five ingredients on his cooking show because that's all my brain can handle at that point. And I just want to be left alone. And I even tell the dog, it's so sad. He knows the command, you're half, which means he has to go to his half of the bed because I don't even want the dog butting up to my legs in any way, I need so just a hot minute. But I think knowing that, knowing and being honest with yourself, like how much of myself do I want to put out here? How much of myself do I need to put out here? And then also saying, what is my-

Kari Jackson (43:05.443)

Hehehe

Aaron Brown (43:15.544)

Hehe hehehehehehehe

Kari Jackson (43:18.816)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (43:31.624)

and what is my target demographic need? It was so helpful when Carrie was like, yes, but this is what they need to be able to relate to. And I'm like, well, if I'm meeting somebody's needs, I think especially as women, we're much more inclined to do that. It's like, oh, they need that. Well, yeah, I wanna help with that, right? Like they need that connectivity. Okay, I'm more inclined then to say, oh, here, come to your point.

Kari Jackson (43:35.222)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kari Jackson (43:49.39)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (43:52.802)

Come see the incredible laundry basket sitting on my coffee table. Or in my case, like why are there 500 shoes on the doormat in the garage to the point that I can't even safely guide my way into my own house that I pay a mortgage on? It is one of the bains of my existence. Or why do my children leave my socks outside the dish, or not the dishwasher, but the washing machine? And why can't they just gingerly put them inside the open hole that conveniently is at their level? Things like that. And it...

Kari Jackson (43:58.318)

Mm-hmm.

Kari Jackson (44:08.408)

Mm-hmm.

Aaron Brown (44:19.052)

Hahaha!

Katie (44:20.574)

It makes it real, right? Cause we're all fighting those battles. Oh my gosh, we're all fighting those battles. Great conversation. Before we wrap up, I wanna give you each a chance to speak into your space about what you think is missed or anything that we haven't touched on that's really important, whether you are a budding designer, hanging out your shingle, or if you're a 20 year veteran who's pretty much seen it all. What would you say, Erin?

Kari Jackson (44:23.042)

Mm-hmm.

Kari Jackson (44:27.061)

Yes.

Aaron Brown (44:49.072)

take a look at your search footprint, see how people are seeing you. And if you're not visible in search, then you need to start taking steps to fix that soon, because it is just how people are finding most people today. If it's not word of mouth, then it's gonna be search. And even if it's word of mouth, they're probably still coming to your site to verify it and qualify you. So you've got to have some sort of search presence. So start there.

Katie (45:13.75)

I love that. Carrie?

Kari Jackson (45:15.13)

And my number one piece of advice is always, no matter what industry you're in, just to be genuine and to be yourself. It's so much easier to market a business or an industry when you're being yourself. And that's what people are drawn to and people.

Katie (45:23.198)

Yeah. Ah, yes.

Kari Jackson (45:38.666)

like to work with people that they know, like and trust. And I feel like it's just easier and to come up with things when you're not trying to be something that you're not. And I also think that it's important, like Erin had said,

Katie (45:43.401)

Yeah.

Kari Jackson (46:02.318)

make a look like do some things right now like if you have a to-do list go ahead and get started even the little things um do i always tell people do the marketing that you like to do because it will get done

Katie (46:15.714)

Hmm... Yeah.

Kari Jackson (46:17.458)

If there's something that you just read, you really, really wanna do those Facebook Lives every Friday, but every Friday you come up with a reason to not make it work, then let's go to plan B. You know, the marketing that you enjoy is the marketing that's gonna get done, and the marketing that gets done consistently is the marketing that works.

Katie (46:30.839)

Hehehehehehe

Katie (46:35.245)

Yeah.

Katie (46:39.338)

I love that, what a great statement. And the one thing I see that is bridging this entire conversation that keeps coming up and over, up and up, up and over again, coming up over and over again, there we go, is the connectivity piece. Know your target market, connect with them, communicate to them. And I think especially we've seen all the loneliness surveys after COVID and how many people are longing for connection and a digital footprint allows you to do that.

Kari Jackson (46:51.342)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Katie (47:07.426)

still in a very meaningful way if it's authentic. So seek the authenticity quotient. Great conversation. Thank you both so much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.

Kari Jackson (47:18.386)

Thanks for having us. Thank you.

Aaron Brown (47:20.016)

Thanks, Katie.

Thanks.