75% of your thoughts happen on a subconscious level, so how do you get those to shift into helpful, healthy thoughts? Spoiler alert: It’s not possible to outwork those thought patterns that have established such instinctual habits. It takes intention, focus, thought, and, yes, effort. Amy Kemp is here to explain and give examples!

In her work within growing companies, Amy helps leaders and business professionals understand how deeply thought habits impact every part of their professional and personal lives. We get into that and so much more in this episode including scheduling guilt-free playtime, emotional energy, boundaries for goal setting, and the business epiphany Amy had while her son was in the hospital. You especially won’t want to miss this week’s Coaching Corner!

In this episode, we cover:

• How thought habits impact our business growth

• Why it’s important to set goals with boundaries

• An example of a time Amy had to say “no” to a client

• How to rewire your brain to create healthy habits and thoughts

• An exercise to walkthrough the next time you’re procrastinating

• How to begin to rethink the hustle culture within entrepreneurship

• What Amy’s schedule looks like to honor her emotional energy and capacity

• What action to incorporate at the end of calls or projects to truly wrap it up

• The importance of guilt-free play—especially as female business owners

• How leaning into your natural genius can make you more profitable

• And how to identify your unique natural genius

• Why it’s beneficial to you and your business to have a strong, supportive team

• The perspective shift Amy had when her son was in the hospital

As female business owners, it’s critical to our happiness and success that we take care of ourselves. Like I always say, we simply cannot pour from an empty cup.

If this conversation sparked something for you, we’d love to hear from you! Say hello on LinkedIn so we can continue the conversation.

More about Amy Kemp

Amy is the owner and CEO of Amy Kemp Inc. In her work within this growing company, Amy helps leaders and business professionals understand how deeply thought habits impact every part of their work and lives. As a certified habit finder coach, Amy has led over 400 female business leaders and has also worked through the habit finder curriculum with hundreds of leaders at small and large companies. 

Links and Mentioned Resources

The Studio

Coaching Strategy Session

I See You (book)

Habit Finder Assessment

Og Mandino's Greatest Salesman in the World

Connect with Amy Kemp

Website

Facebook

LinkedIn

Instagram

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More about Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design

As an interior designer, do you struggle with balancing your passion for creativity with the practical demands and hopes of running a successful business? Whether starting a new venture or scaling an existing firm, the complexities can be overwhelming. Welcome to “Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design,” a podcast designed to bridge the gap between creativity and entrepreneurship. 

This masterclass is hosted by the dynamic Katie Decker-Erickson, a seasoned expert with nearly 20 years of experience in interior design, a Master's degree in Business Administration, and creator and owner of a multimillion-dollar interior design firm. 

Each episode offers innovative and actionable business strategies, engaging conversations, and practical guidance to help you build and grow a successful design business. Tune in every other Friday on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms to ignite your creative spark and sharpen your entrepreneurial skills. (Topics and language are kid/family friendly.)

This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you. 

This episode of Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design is brought to you in partnership with Leah Bryant Co.

The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design follows

Katie (00:04.949)

Hey Amy, welcome to the show.

Amy Kemp (00:06.112)

Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

Katie (00:09.653)

We are so excited to have you. If you could give yourself a title, what would it be?

Amy Kemp (00:14.35)

I think entrepreneur probably is the most encapsulating. I seem to be a creator of businesses throughout my life. If I look for themes, that would be one. But in the, I mean, in different iterations, I also would definitely say guide, fellow traveler, just sort of someone that has traveled the road with other people.

Katie (00:22.186)

Yeah.

Katie (00:37.738)

Hmm.

Amy Kemp (00:44.045)

and done that really intentionally.

Katie (00:47.861)

Yeah, that's a beautiful piece of advice I always love to share is get busy running your race and see who shows up next to you. It applies professionally. It applies to dating and marriage and friendships and so many things. I think sometimes we go out seeking instead of saying, I'm just going to let my natural tendencies propel me forward and then see who shows up for the conversation, right?

Amy Kemp (00:53.006)

No.

Amy Kemp (01:09.55)

Absolutely. And the right people always show up just when you need them, without question.

Katie (01:15.881)

Isn't it crazy how that happens when you just let it happen and all of a sudden you look over and you're like, well, hey, look at you over there. I didn't know. I didn't know I need you, but I totally needed you here. You fit right into the piece of the puzzle at the right time.

Amy Kemp (01:18.861)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Amy Kemp (01:29.966)

Absolutely.

Katie (01:32.725)

What have you found working with creatives? Let's go down this path of thought processes. In your book, you have a beautiful statement. You said, you can't outwork your thought habits. And I sat with that for a hot minute and I was like, yeah, what we tell ourselves is way more powerful than what we're doing.

Amy Kemp (01:34.222)

Mm -hmm.

Amy Kemp (01:42.254)

Mm -hmm.

Amy Kemp (01:48.238)

Mmm, it's so true. I think first I would say there's we spend very little time thinking about the subconscious mind we spend a ton of time living in our conscious mind and most of our thoughts Actually, probably about 75 to 80 percent of them are happening at a subconscious level

Katie (02:02.028)

Yep.

Amy Kemp (02:10.35)

and we aren't really even aware that those thoughts are swirling underneath the surface and they're impacting every interaction we have, every decision we make, every task we choose to tackle or avoid. All of those subconscious thought habits are playing a song underneath the surface and they're impacting us, but we don't really pay attention to those or even think about them consciously.

Katie (02:12.361)

Wow.

Katie (02:32.085)

Mm -hmm.

Amy Kemp (02:38.51)

the core message of the book, You Can't Outwork Your Thought Habits came because in my work and in my life, my own experience, I got to a place where working harder and longer and more, one, wasn't even really possible. It wasn't actually energetically or, yeah. Yes. Yes. So.

Katie (03:02.529)

humanly possible. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a human and I can't do this anymore. Check. Yeah.

Amy Kemp (03:07.662)

That was huge. I got to this place where it was not possible for me to work more and yet I wanted to multiply my income and influence and impact. And at that point, I had a turning point moment in my own professional trajectory where I realized, okay, to get to the new place, the next place, this is not just about.

Katie (03:15.755)

Hmm.

Katie (03:20.759)

Hmm.

Amy Kemp (03:33.646)

working harder or more, which had always been my go -to in the past. And still if I'm not paying attention, becomes it very quickly. I had to learn to think differently and most importantly I had to become aware of the subconscious habits of thinking that were really holding me back and keeping me from making progress. And so the journey that I'm on with others now parallels that same process of understanding.

Katie (03:39.488)

Mm -hmm.

Amy Kemp (04:02.221)

My people are the hard workers of the world. They're not afraid of getting their elbow grease into the work that they do. But they have gotten to a place where it feels either unsustainable or I can't grow this any further doing it the way I'm doing it now.

Katie (04:04.492)

Yeah.

Katie (04:08.983)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (04:22.507)

which I absolutely love because I think every person, we always talk about scaling in our industry and in every industry, the whole idea is to grow bigger, better, smarter. And as we talk about a lot on this podcast, there's not always a reason why to do that. But when you do go down that rabbit hole and you end up, standing at the top of the mountain, but it's a fricking cliff. And you're like, now what?

Amy Kemp (04:27.725)

Mm.

Katie (04:47.305)

Yeah, I mean, that's a really hard place to be. Like you're supposed to feel, think, all the ecstasy. And I have been there. You've built a multimillion dollar firm or you've done a six, seven figure. You've gotten where you want to be and you're standing there you're like, but it doesn't feel the way that I thought it was going to. And now I have to sustain it. And that becomes another component. Like, yeah, I'm here. One, it doesn't feel how I thought it would. But now what? Now becomes the now what part, right? So when you see people come to you like that, what do you do with that?

Amy Kemp (05:06.222)

Mm -hmm.

Amy Kemp (05:11.95)

Yes.

Mm -hmm. Let me add one more to your list, which is I've built this massive thing that looks very successful externally, but the profit isn't what I imagined it would be, or it's less than what I thought it would be. That is a huge part of business growth and entrepreneurship, I think, is really understanding that we have relationships with our businesses just like we do with people and without boundaries.

Katie (05:19.338)

Do it.

Katie (05:27.637)

Yes, this is what we coach too all the time.

Katie (05:42.645)

Hmm.

Amy Kemp (05:43.118)

I'll actually talk about one chapter in the book that relates to boundaries, but not boundaries with people, though I do love to talk about that also. I want to talk a little bit about boundaries with your goals and with your business because it's relational. We interact with our business like we interact with people. We have to absolutely have boundaries in place in order to have healthy relationships with anything.

Katie (05:52.875)

Hmm.

Katie (06:00.683)

Hmm.

Hmm.

Amy Kemp (06:11.471)

And so in this arena, and particularly I find most of my clients are women, we set the big goals and we are ambitious, which is why we're entrepreneurs and business owners without taking into account the wholeness of our lives. So I work a ton with people on how to set goals with boundaries. So I'll give you an example in my business. My goal is to work like a healthy teacher.

Katie (06:38.196)

Yes, do it.

Amy Kemp (06:40.335)

I'll say healthy teacher because I work from like eight to three thirty and then Monday through Friday. I don't do weekends. I don't do evenings and I take light summers. I do still work in the summer, but not really as much at all. And then I take breaks when schools have breaks typically. So Christmas, spring break, those types of things, fall break. And so I want to work like a healthy teacher while getting paid like a CEO.

Katie (06:51.329)

Yeah.

Katie (06:57.303)

Sure.

Amy Kemp (07:10.063)

So if I have the goal, it is, thank you. But if I have the goal of getting paid like a CEO alone, which is my goal, unapologetically, because I'm worthy of it.

Katie (07:10.633)

Love it. That is a beautiful goal. That's a great goal. Who doesn't think that's a great goal?

Katie (07:22.391)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie (07:29.974)

Yes.

Amy Kemp (07:30.255)

without the boundary of quality of life, I have no framework through which to make decisions when opportunities arise. So I tell the story in the book about, this is such a, it still kind of pains me, I'm not gonna lie, but a woman got in touch with me and she was my ideal client. I mean, in every way, I was like, you are my people. I know the work I can do with habits of thinking can serve you.

Katie (07:33.739)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie (07:54.742)

Yeah.

Amy Kemp (07:59.823)

And we had this really meaningful, rich conversation. We get to the end and she's like, I don't even need to think about it. I'm ready to move forward. I want to work with you. And at the highest level. So I'm like, great. Only one thing she says, I can only meet in the evening.

Katie (08:00.982)

Yeah.

Katie (08:09.055)

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Amy Kemp (08:19.918)

And I was...

Katie (08:20.27)

because her business was running her rather than her running your business

Amy Kemp (08:23.215)

Right, and I said, okay, I'm gonna need to think about that because I'm still so at risk of saying yes, especially in the face of real need. And so I said, I'm gonna need to sleep on it and then I'll get back with you because I don't typically work with people in the evening. I slept on it and woke up and knew I had to say no. I just knew I had to say no and.

Katie (08:33.505)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie (08:46.625)

Good for you.

Amy Kemp (08:48.334)

So I contacted her, I says, is there any way you can do during lunch? I was trying to kind of work with her. Yeah, and she said no. And I said, if I say yes, I can't with integrity teach you any of the principles upon which my business is built and it won't benefit you and then I'll be resentful and it just won't, it's not gonna be in service of either of us. So.

Katie (08:54.315)

I'll flex with you. Yeah. It's just going to be during normal business hours. Yeah.

Katie (09:13.599)

Mm -hmm. Mm.

Amy Kemp (09:16.302)

Saying you want to work like a teacher and get paid like a CEO sounds super cool in theory and until you have the very cool woman in front of you that you'd love to serve and you even have to say no there. That's where kind of the boundaries with your business, like the rubber hits the road if you so to speak. So.

Katie (09:30.059)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (09:36.585)

Well, and I love what you said. There was such a golden nugget in there. If you want a healthy relationship with anything in life, it requires boundaries. Nobody teaches that, especially to women, I feel like. Whether it's your relationship with your spouse, your business, your kids, and you can be like, Kitty, what do you mean you need boundaries in all those areas? It's your kids. my gosh. Yes, you need boundaries. I find the neediest things in life need the most boundaries or you leave.

Amy Kemp (09:43.213)

It does.

Ugh.

Amy Kemp (09:57.229)

Katie (10:03.265)

Feeling like that sponge that's sitting by your sink that's three months old and you're like, I keep meaning to throw that thing in the trash, right? You're shriveled up, dead on the inside and hard as a rock. You can't even feel at some point because you're so flat on your face.

Amy Kemp (10:12.366)

Absolutely. yeah, I have right now, currently, as I'm sitting here, five emails from my seventh grader in my inbox asking me if the rubber ducks he needs for his project at school have arrived. Literally five. I'm just ignoring them because I'm working, right? But that's a boundary. That's, I mean, right? It's a boundary and he's just wanting to know right away if they're here because he needs them.

Katie (10:21.847)

Hmm.

Katie (10:28.279)

Hashtag 7th grade crises.

Amy Kemp (10:41.934)

Well, first of all, you didn't tell me in time. So it's not my problem. Like your yeses, emergency. And two, I really don't need to answer this. This is not the top of my priority list. So, but again, it comes up every hour of every day, those boundaries. We also have relationships with our money, with our time, with our health, all of the areas where you set a new year's resolutions, you have.

Katie (10:46.679)

Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine, even in seventh grade.

Katie (11:00.651)

Yeah.

Katie (11:05.195)

Yep.

Amy Kemp (11:10.093)

relationships with those things. And so...

Katie (11:13.687)

And arguably they're not healthy because you are setting New Year's resolutions about them and they need some attention. And at least you acknowledge that, right? But like, how do you change the narrative? You started off the conversation by saying 70 to 80 % are the subliminal thoughts and they're driving everything. So because they're subliminal, it begs the question, how do we get back into the sublimation to create a word to rewire the brain? So we stop making New Year's resolutions we fail at year after year after year.

Amy Kemp (11:15.885)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Mm -hmm. Yes. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Amy Kemp (11:35.405)

Great.

Amy Kemp (11:42.862)

Absolutely. First you have to know what's even happening at the subconscious level. So I work with a tool called the habit finder, which is free. You can take it on my website at amykempt .com. It's a free tool that measures if I could unzip your head, look inside and see where the deepest grooves are in your brain, where you have a high risk. So what the tool measures is risk of falling into certain habits of thinking.

Katie (11:55.083)

Nice.

Amy Kemp (12:10.829)

And if you imagine in an airport, for example, when the terrorist threat is high, let's say, what do we do when you're at high risk? We slow down, we raise awareness, we become very intentional and slow about moving through processes, right? So when the risk is high in an airport, you know, there's more checks. They do the full body scan instead of letting you just walk through TSA. They maybe...

Katie (12:17.281)

Yeah.

Katie (12:28.257)

Hmm.

Amy Kemp (12:38.093)

randomly are pulling people out. They're just paying more attention, right? It's a slower pace. So in areas of life where you have habits of thinking, where you have high risk, you absolutely slow down and become more intentional and bring it to the conscious mind. There's only actually a few ways you can have a fighting chance against subconscious thought habits. One of the best ways is talking out loud to yourself. So I'll say all the time.

Katie (12:44.087)

That's a great way to put it.

Katie (12:59.645)

Mmm.

Amy Kemp (13:07.564)

out loud. Nobody's here. No one's in the room. Right? But I will say.

Katie (13:13.089)

I was like, that's how I get through my entire work day is talking to myself. Yeah.

Amy Kemp (13:15.405)

Right? But it's, it's the way you coach yourself. You, you even have a fighting chance against a subconscious habit of thinking. So I'll say, I'm going to set my timer and work for 30 minutes. I just did this today on an agenda that I'd been kind of putting off because it feels really tedious and kind of annoying. And so I set the timer and did it, but I had, I had to say out loud, I'm going to do that right now. I'm setting my timer.

Katie (13:34.655)

Yep.

Katie (13:42.455)

And yeah, yeah.

Amy Kemp (13:42.957)

And I'm putting away everything else to focus on this for 30 minutes. I'm going to just focus on that to override all of the other habits of thinking that are playing at me in that moment, the procrastination and all of those other things. So definitely it's really interesting work because one, it's not overnight change. Although I don't know that any sustainable change is it's very incremental, very tiny shifts.

Katie (13:48.427)

Yep. Yep.

Katie (14:01.43)

Yeah.

Amy Kemp (14:12.333)

tiny, tiny, tiny choices you're making every day that really make a big impact.

Katie (14:18.711)

Which I think when we use the bow and arrow analogy, just that tiny little sliver of that difference when that arrow leaves the bow and you put it 30 yards downfield, dramatically changes everything. But in our culture, we don't operate that way. We want it fast, easy, simple. mean, look at Ozimbic and no judgment to anybody uses it. I mean, what a tool.

Amy Kemp (14:30.316)

dramatically.

Katie (14:40.929)

But look at how that's flown off the shelves, right? Because it's fast, easy, simple. are trained. That comes intuitively, especially to us as Americans, I think. And so the idea, like when things get hard, I find that we want to do the exact opposite.

of what you described in your airport analogy, which I think is great when there's a heightened terrorist threat, right? Like slowing down, being intentional, whatever. In our businesses, a lot of times when you feel things are going off the rails, it's like, we gotta get to it. We gotta make this move. We got profits to meet. We have deadlines to make. We have checks to write, right? And so I think for a lot of entrepreneurs to be told to slow down, that's not something we're taught. It's the hustle that gets us where we need to be. How do you, I mean, what truth do you speak into that space of, no, no, no, no, no, just take a deep breath.

Amy Kemp (15:06.509)

Mm.

Amy Kemp (15:15.468)

enough.

Katie (15:25.399)

take a hot minute and slow it down because I don't think that's intuitive for 90 % of us.

Amy Kemp (15:30.221)

I know, and I actually, to me the analogy is like if you're riding your bike in a, I never know if it's a lower or higher gear. I think it's higher if you're going faster. But whatever. It's like this, in order to go further with less effort, you have to shift the gear and slow down and maybe you'll have fewer revolutions per hour.

Katie (15:33.271)

especially as women.

Katie (15:44.242)

Yeah, there we go.

Katie (15:51.031)

Mmm.

Amy Kemp (15:58.605)

but you're gonna be actually traveling a further distance. I think I need to give an example, because I feel like it needs to be really concrete for people to really understand what that looks like on a day -to -day basis. Okay, I'll give you, I have a really high risk of, I'm empathetic and I have a really high risk of taking on responsibility for other people's issues. I wanna help them solve things. I wanna...

Katie (16:03.989)

Ooh, I love that analogy.

Katie (16:10.849)

Yep.

Katie (16:20.78)

Hmm.

Amy Kemp (16:28.493)

relieve pressure from them. So I have a high risk of bringing their stuff with me, which at a certain point in my business resulted in me not really wanting to grow the business because it felt so heavy to carry everyone's stuff with me, especially when I was developing leaders and I was really holding the responsibility of their success or failure as a leader. And so,

Katie (16:29.065)

Sure.

Katie (16:32.588)

Yeah.

Katie (16:46.539)

Hmm. Makes sense.

Katie (16:55.369)

Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Kemp (16:56.557)

I have a couple of exercises that I do to slow myself down. One is, well, one is just the pace of that's why I work like a teacher because I have plenty of time to do more work than I do. I don't have the emotional capacity to do it in a way that's healthy, right? So I don't have the emotional energy.

Katie (17:14.511)

Can you say that one more time? Because I feel like our audience really needs to hear this. Because it's not just about your outputs, it's about being human. And just because it's intangible doesn't mean it's not highly relevant to creating sustainability. Say it again.

Amy Kemp (17:19.532)

Yes.

Yes.

Amy Kemp (17:29.036)

Yeah, so I could work. I have time in my schedule that I could work until 5 30 or six. I really could, but I don't have the emotional energy or the capacity to do it in a way that's healthy. At a certain point, then I find I start to take stuff on. I start to feel it more deeply. And so I really have to limit.

the amount of time that I'm doing the really intense emotional labor that I do with clients so that I don't fall into that habit of thinking. But a lot of times that means at three o 'clock, I'm just outside waiting in the yard or I'm not doing it. I'm not leaving work because I have somewhere to be. I'm just at capacity. That's all that I can give before it becomes a diminishing return. But I also do a few things around that.

Katie (17:55.521)

Hmm.

Katie (18:01.451)

Yep.

Katie (18:10.303)

Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Kemp (18:23.02)

even physically to separate myself. One thing I will always do in a conversation is imagine, and I love this even when you're working with clients in a service capacity where you're helping a client achieve a specific goal. I imagine that we're like weaving a beautiful ribbon of many different colors together as we talk and create together, right? And we're kind of co -creating in that conversation. But at the end,

Katie (18:25.889)

Hmm.

Katie (18:43.307)

you

Katie (18:46.613)

Yeah.

Amy Kemp (18:52.043)

I always will shut off my zoom and I will kind of do this motion like scissors with my fingers like I'm cutting the ribbon and I will say out loud what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours to sort of signify.

Katie (19:07.073)

That is so practical. I love this.

Amy Kemp (19:09.452)

Yeah, to signify this is their responsibility in this journey. This is mine and my role is very clear to provide input, to provide feedback, to provide next steps, to provide a service. Yes, but then they also have a responsibility and they get to take that part with them. It's really helpful in any client, business owner, service provider type of a relationship. Really. You can start to take on too much and then it just becomes.

Katie (19:22.401)

Hmm.

Katie (19:25.825)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Katie (19:33.077)

Yes.

Katie (19:39.24)

Way too much.

Amy Kemp (19:39.595)

heavy and exhausting and subconsciously you'll just stop acquiring clients because you really don't want any more of that. It doesn't feel fun.

Katie (19:49.579)

Well, absolutely. No, it doesn't feel fun. And I love it because it does feel tangible when you're in that space. I've been in that space, but it literally feels like that whole taking your work home with you thing. I'm like, did it ever leave? And there are times I've had that wall and I'm like, no, you just have to check out because you have to check out and then you can open up that space again because you have to be renewed, even if it's we like you said, weeding, whatever it is to check it at the door.

Amy Kemp (20:01.291)

Amy Kemp (20:10.379)

Absolutely.

Katie (20:17.303)

There's very few things that you're going to discover by perseverating on them into perpetuity. Yes, insomnia will speak to me. Now there are many things that come to me at 2 a that are utterly brilliant, I will tell you Amy, because my back to those 80 % of subliminal consciousness, in fact sometimes it's just more powerful to let your subconscious just chew on it. It will bring it to the conscious when you're ready. And then you go, yeah, that's that. Of course that's what I needed to do. Who knew that?

Amy Kemp (20:34.796)

Mm.

Amy Kemp (20:38.443)

Absolutely.

Amy Kemp (20:42.443)

Mm.

Katie (20:43.329)

But just sitting there thinking of it in your conscious brain where you can't even be present in the moment, it never gets there.

Amy Kemp (20:47.435)

Yes. No, here's the other thing. This is another chapter in my book. It's about guilt -free play. So the subconscious, you're inspiring me to share this because it's so right in alignment with it. But if you have a tendency to overwork, to over give, the best investment or the best shift you can make is to schedule guilt -free play into your calendar.

Katie (20:56.875)

Yep.

Katie (21:04.055)

Hmm.

Katie (21:07.797)

Mm -hmm.

Amy Kemp (21:15.723)

So what this looks like is, this is so fun. So every Thursday from six to eight, you will find me playing pickleball. It is in my calendar. I don't miss it. It's like my favorite thing in the whole world. I have tomorrow scheduled the farmer's market, going to a baseball game. Like I have scheduled things that are fun on a regular basis into my schedule. Here's what happens.

Katie (21:17.241)

I love this tip. It's so practical.

Katie (21:27.956)

This is awesome.

Katie (21:38.976)

Yeah.

Amy Kemp (21:40.746)

When you have scheduled guilt -free playtime, you have a higher quality of work because you're looking forward to something and you know there's an end in sight. Like this is my last call of the day before the long weekend. I'm so pumped about some of the things I'm gonna get to do, right? But I'm so energized because I know I have fun coming. I can do all the work that I needed to do today with Focus knowing that. Then because I do my work with great quality,

Katie (21:43.435)

Mm.

Katie (21:53.917)

Mmm. Mmm. we're honored. Yeah.

Amy Kemp (22:10.252)

I can actually enjoy the play. I don't feel guilty about doing it. I'm fully present, not worrying about the work, which then creates inspired creative ideas. That's where our brain gets to play. That's where you come up with the solution to the problem you've been chewing on or a vision for something new that you want to create or a new initiative or a new marketing idea or a new even just like a.

Katie (22:10.956)

Yeah.

Katie (22:14.219)

Hmm. Hmm. I love that.

Katie (22:24.353)

Hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm.

Amy Kemp (22:36.203)

client, I'll sometimes think of a client and then think of something that they could really use or need, right? That's because I've freed my brain up to play and be creative like a child. And then that leads you back to work, which is a higher quality of work again, because you're bringing these inspired ideas to the space, but it all starts with scheduled guilt -free play. That's where you really start the process is by, by

Katie (22:42.581)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Katie (22:49.292)

Yeah.

Katie (22:56.063)

Hmm. I love that.

Katie (23:01.908)

Yeah, yeah.

Yep.

Amy Kemp (23:05.355)

prioritizing that play in your life. I just read this amazing study in Finland, the country of Finland has made huge strides in their education system in the last decades and one of the main changes they made was that they made it mandatory that kindergartners had to play for it's like 90 % of the day. It's just play because they found that when kids played they won, learned more.

Katie (23:10.517)

I absolutely love that.

Katie (23:19.443)

Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Kemp (23:35.306)

too, they loved school and so they wanted to come back for more and that led them to be better students down the road. And so I think of the same thing for us, like mandatory play.

Katie (23:36.054)

Yep.

Katie (23:41.547)

Totally.

Katie (23:49.279)

You don't outgrow it. think it was Mr. Rogers who said, the business or the work of childhood is play. And just because we inhabit larger bodies, I don't want to lose that because creativity is born out of play. It is not something that is taught in school. It is not something you read a book about and go, I'm a creative. All of that is born out of those inputs that I think most predominantly. In fact, I had this scary thought the other day because my kids are nine and seven. And I thought,

Amy Kemp (23:54.026)

Mmm, yes!

Amy Kemp (24:06.09)

Mm -mm.

Katie (24:18.411)

They're going to leave, and then I'm going to have to make my own play. Like, I'm going have to, like, now they pull me out and I go talk to the other moms at tennis, right? And then we have to go off to their kids' theater camp. And then we run into new people, and we're laughing and sharing stories. I'm like, I'm going to have to do that all myself someday and be a grown up and make my own play. And I think it's easier when you do have kids to find a slot for that sometimes. But the reality is that it can also backfire on you.

Amy Kemp (24:22.058)

Hmm.

Amy Kemp (24:36.298)

Mmm.

Katie (24:46.593)

Wherever you're at, whether you have kids, you don't have kids, you want kids, play is important. We shouldn't just be relying on kids to provide it and bring it to our lives.

Amy Kemp (24:51.145)

Ugh.

Amy Kemp (24:56.041)

100 % and it also just lights you up. You're an attractive person when you're doing interesting things and think about the best ideas you've ever had. They either came in the shower when you were listening to great music, you were at a concert, you were at a picnic, you were talking to friends over dinner. You didn't, you weren't looking at a spreadsheet. I promise.

Katie (25:01.825)

Yeah.

Katie (25:07.713)

Yes! Yes!

Katie (25:14.481)

Yes.

Katie (25:23.251)

No, no, maybe the accountants amongst us, but for the remainder of the creatives, no.

Amy Kemp (25:26.034)

Again, well, that's true. Maybe accountants are inspired by the spreadsheet, but I love a great spreadsheet too. So I love spreadsheets actually, which is funny, but that's not where my creative ideas come from. So there is a time and place for that work, but if you want inspired ideas, even on handling personnel issues or handling personal conflict or trying to figure out how to address a sticky situation, creativity isn't all just

Katie (25:31.839)

Maybe they could light up, yeah.

Katie (25:40.981)

Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Kemp (25:55.625)

all art, it's also in our art of interacting with people in the art of building a business. Businesses are super creative spaces. I love the creativity of growing businesses. So I just find that everything is better when we have that part of us stimulated on a regular basis. And the only way to do that is to play. So.

Katie (26:01.621)

Yes, emotional intelligence.

Katie (26:06.572)

Mm.

Katie (26:18.775)

Agreed. Well, and that segues so nicely into something else you wrote in your book, because you said, want to encourage your readers to do a lot of the thing that feels easy to you and astonishes everyone else. And I think this is really counterintuitive, especially having kids, because so many parents spend time saying, well, you've got to be in that. Let's focus and get you tutoring and get that to an A. And one of the best books I read, I wish I could take credit for this, and I utterly can't. They said, screw the B.

Amy Kemp (26:23.465)

Mm.

Katie (26:48.125)

Most of life is B's. Figure out your A and run hard at your A. You only have to be brilliant at one thing and you can do amazing things in life. If you're phoning in the rest of life with a B, you're doing fabulously. But go take your A, put glitter on that A, make it shine, put it under the lights and go for it, right? Like when I read this, I was like, yeah, same to you. This is everything because imagine if we can teach this to ourselves and to our kids.

Amy Kemp (27:07.817)

Mm. Ugh. Yes.

Amy Kemp (27:13.865)

Right. The hard part about identifying those things, which I would call your areas of natural genius, right, is that it feels so easy to you that you don't even know that everyone can't do it. Or you...

Katie (27:22.209)

Yeah.

Katie (27:25.685)

Love that term.

Mmm.

Katie (27:33.868)

that is such a good moment. feels so easy to you. You don't know everyone else can't do it. Great nugget.

Amy Kemp (27:37.226)

Right. Or you vastly undercharge for it because it feels so easy to you. And so you think I should only make a lot of money for the things that are a struggle that I had to struggle for. When in actuality, most of where I make the most money are in areas where I would do it for free. I love it. It's so easy. I mean, absolutely. I from a child, I

Katie (27:42.839)

Mm.

Katie (27:49.366)

Mmm... Mm -hmm...

Katie (27:59.529)

I'm having fun. I'm having fun, right? Yeah.

Amy Kemp (28:06.057)

I had a club in our neighborhood. You had to put a piece of chewed gum on the tree to get in. And I would lead discussions among eight of my friends. We would talk about how to make the neighborhood better. And I would facilitate conversations. I've been doing that my whole career, right? And now I lead small groups of women through this curriculum. Well, I've been doing that since I was eight and you had to put a piece of chewed gum on the tree, right? It is not something that I know.

Katie (28:12.712)

Awesome.

Katie (28:23.351)

Mm

Katie (28:32.673)

Right.

Amy Kemp (28:35.146)

I just think everyone could do that, but I've learned, no, they can't. This is an area of natural genius. And so I can harness it and use it both to serve the world in a very unique way, right? To let kind of the woo woo of just the bigger energy of the universe to flow through me and out into the world using it, right? That's when I feel most alive, most open, most excited. And I also...

Katie (28:39.947)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Katie (28:48.033)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie (28:56.097)

Yep, yep.

Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Kemp (29:02.857)

can earn a great deal of money for that because it is, I use these scrolls that are from Og Mandino's Greatest Salesman in the World in my work. It's a book that a lot of people know, but one of the scrolls says, I am rare and there is value in all rarity, therefore I am valuable. So it's that, yeah, it's that thing that you do that astonishes everyone else, but you think, well duh, like what?

Katie (29:12.416)

Yeah.

Yep.

Mm.

Katie (29:23.079)

I think we so need to hear that. Yeah.

Amy Kemp (29:32.905)

That feels so... Yes!

Katie (29:34.207)

Why is it astonishing? I can do it in my sleep. Great, you found your area of genius. Do it and run hard. Make that your A and run after it. I think especially to us designers, we think like if we are not the designer, maybe there's an aspect of design that is your area of genius. Maybe you just love drafting and you're like, if I never have to talk to a client another day in my life, I'm

Amy Kemp (29:42.153)

Yes.

Amy Kemp (29:47.625)

Mm.

Katie (29:56.277)

I'm gonna be so happy. Give me my software. Leave me in my room and let me do it or you're the sorcerer and you're like I just want to pick pretty things all day. This is what I love is I love picking pretty things. This is I don't want to have to worry about sales and client relations and spreadsheets or you're the accountant. You're like I love spreadsheets. Spreadsheets are where I live. Like I want to know are we making money and if so how much and where are we hemorrhaging it or what can we be doing better? What's our largest

You know, there's so many different avenues in the world of design that don't get married to dumping the baby out with the bathwater and saying, I'm burnt out in design, I'm walking away. Maybe you just haven't found your niche and your genius, but that doesn't mean you have to leave the industry. Maybe it's just right here. It's just in a different closet, so to speak.

Amy Kemp (30:36.234)

Yes, or you're trying to do all those things and don't have people in place who are using their areas of natural genius to help you, right? It's because when you are trying to do all of that and it's not in your area of natural genius, it's really draining.

Katie (30:45.943)

That's so true.

Katie (30:53.023)

Yep. It's exhausting. You know, it literally feels like someone is shop backing your soul because you have to drag yourself to the party, right? And you're like, OK, I'm here. I'm not proud to be here, not happy to be here, but I'm here and we're going to do this. And then what the whole rest of the day is shot. Anything that you were going to do that was in your natural genius doesn't happen, right? Because you are literally so dry.

Amy Kemp (30:57.161)

It really can.

Amy Kemp (31:12.521)

Absolutely.

Absolutely. And like you, I'm sure, I mean, I have a team of people supporting me.

Katie (31:23.319)

Mm, yep, it's about the people, 100%.

Amy Kemp (31:23.977)

who are all then able to work in their areas of natural genius, right? Not so that I can work in mine. And for women particularly, because we do the mountain sheriff on paid labor in our world, also having people support you there with cleaning, with laundry, with things that drain you in your day -to -day life so that you have that energy to invest in your business.

Katie (31:29.27)

Yep.

Katie (31:45.032)

Yes.

Amy Kemp (31:53.545)

adequate child care, all of those things.

Katie (31:55.094)

I think there's

I'm sorry. No, think there's two great points really nestled in there. that I love what I think it was that Leslie Stahl who said you could have it all, but you can't have it all at once, which I think is so great. But I would make a caveat to that. If you do want to have it all at once, you better have an army standing behind you. I mean, like you, I feel like I stand. I always say I stand on the shoulders of giants. But each of them are giants in what they do. Our CPA is a giant at being a CPA. Our project manager is a giant at project managing.

Amy Kemp (32:14.473)

Mm -hmm.

Amy Kemp (32:21.097)

Yes.

Katie (32:27.863)

And at home, Nancy even is a giant of cleaning my house because I can't sit here in this space with you. If you think that I have time and that I am capable of that, one, I'm deeply flattered, two, it's completely unrealistic. Like I'm telling you right now, I'll never forget when I got married. We're coming up on 13 years of marriage and my husband, apparently he didn't realize when we were dating that I had a housekeeper.

Amy Kemp (32:39.369)

Mmm.

Amy Kemp (32:53.033)

Mmm.

Katie (32:54.079)

And so it was hilarious. get married, we move in together, and he's like, who's this person? I'm like, cleaning. Cleaning's coming. To save the day, I will mind you. He's like, wait, you never told me you had a cleaning person. I'm like, it wasn't my obligation to tell you I had a cleaning person. Do you really think I can run a business and teach and do all these things and still have time to clean? No, I'm going to hire somebody who's way more efficient, who knows all the products, who knows what needs to be done, who can see the things I can't see, and I will.

Amy Kemp (33:08.361)

Katie (33:23.443)

I pay them to do that because that is their natural genius and it's not mine. they like our cleaner, I will tell you, she is amazing. She sees things. She's like, I did all of the wood surfaces today. I'm like, wait, what? What just happened? That's incredible. I wouldn't even think to do all the wood surfaces, but she is so happy. Yeah, she's like, they look great. I'm like, and she'll send me text pictures afterwards of how excited she is about what she cleaned. And I just heart everything because I'm like natural genius.

Amy Kemp (33:23.785)

Right?

Amy Kemp (33:31.881)

Mm -hmm.

Amy Kemp (33:36.745)

I didn't even know there were wood surfaces!

Amy Kemp (33:49.865)

This is such a great example, right? That's such a, plus here's the other thing. this is actually all of chapter nine of my book is about unpaid labor. It is exactly what you're talking about right now is celebrating, letting other people help you and growing the economy by doing that and supporting another woman's business, right? That will come back to bless you. It just comes back reciprocally.

Katie (33:53.93)

Right?

Katie (34:00.225)

Yeah.

Mm.

Yes.

Katie (34:13.598)

Yes, claps for that.

Mm -hmm.

Amy Kemp (34:17.833)

But we are on average there's an actual unpaid labor labor survey in the book and most women on average are doing It's between 20 and 40 hours of unpaid labor a week that we're doing and that includes making appointments shopping for clothes cleaning out closets Preparing for holidays party preparation. My son is graduating from high school and my my husband has

Katie (34:26.079)

I cringe because I know how bad it is.

Katie (34:34.199)

Mm.

Amy Kemp (34:46.633)

no idea about one thing having to do with the graduation party, which is in about 10 days. He has no idea, right?

Katie (34:57.079)

Wouldn't you love that luxury, by the way, or the fact that you have to send in a baby picture for the graduation itself and all of the parties of everyone else's kids? Yeah, right? She's like, you're stressing me out already. Yes!

Amy Kemp (35:00.777)

don't even. And all the other grad party invitations that are sitting here that I need cards for and gifts for and yes. Okay, all that to say though, I actually think men are just smart enough to know I can't do all of that and work full time. And I would not even try because it's so ridiculous to think that a person could. And so they don't.

Katie (35:13.313)

Yeah.

Katie (35:23.221)

Yeah.

Katie (35:27.154)

Ooh, I love that. Yep.

Amy Kemp (35:27.273)

even try, so even to be complimentary of them, right? I'm not, I don't even, it's not even critical. It's just that they actually understand their capacity and know that since the 1950s, when women largely entered the workforce, but kept all of the unpaid labor, we haven't had a fair redistribution of all of that unpaid labor. And so when we are beating ourselves up because we can't seem to grow a business at the same pace,

Katie (35:32.651)

Yeah.

Amy Kemp (35:55.785)

as someone else or we can't seem to acquire clients at the same pace. Well, you're actually have another full time job. So relax all as well. Yeah.

Katie (36:04.396)

you do.

Yeah, I call it the third shift. There's 24 hours in a day, eight hours for your job, eight hours for sleep, and eight hours for what I call the third shift, which is every, and I think I stole that term from someone, it's not an original, but it's everything else. It's the everything else, right? And somehow out of that, you're supposed to be a whole person. And that can be back to boundaries. I mean, you ate a men for setting boundaries a long time ago. I'm just not doing that. I'm like, well, that must be nice.

Amy Kemp (36:18.985)

Yeah. Yeah. Everything else.

Amy Kemp (36:26.633)

direct.

Right, and you're also supposed to exercise so that your body looks a certain way. You're supposed to be investing in your community by volunteering and your faith community, whatever that looks like, and your kids, and you're, you know, right, you're also supposed to be doing all of that as well. So I think most people are most moved by this chapter nine about this very conversation we're having. It's, it's.

Katie (36:40.831)

Rate, rate, rate.

Katie (36:56.693)

Yeah. Back to boundaries.

Amy Kemp (36:58.057)

vital that women, particularly, though I will say I have some single dad types in my world as well that deal with the same thing, right? So I don't know that it's gender specific, but definitely some, the unpaid labor is very valuable. It provides connection in our communities and in our families. And it, it's, it's vital.

Katie (37:07.519)

Yeah, for sure.

Katie (37:20.661)

It's the fiber of society. We're raising up small humans. Like, yeah.

Amy Kemp (37:24.777)

vital right and caring for aging parents and aging people as well right we're doing it on both ends of the generational spectrum but we aren't taking into account that that that is a choice we're choosing to do that and so if the business grows a little more slowly sometimes it does like it's all right i just this just happened my son ended up in the hospital it was a long story but he had a surgery and

Katie (37:34.06)

Yep.

Katie (37:44.087)

Mm.

Amy Kemp (37:51.721)

It was unexpected and I had to take about five days off of work and I was feeling sort of frustrated about it. Kind of just like, urgh, you know. And I was in the morning, I was meditating and I just received this impression that said like, get higher than the situation. So I was like, all right. So I kind of get eagle, right, like eagle eye and I asked myself like, what am I trying to create? Well.

Katie (38:03.329)

Hmm.

Hmm.

Katie (38:11.499)

Hmm. Trying over here, trying.

Amy Kemp (38:20.521)

I'm trying to create a healthy family, a beautiful business that is profitable and serves the world and the people that I'm here to serve. I want to, you know, invest in my community and my faith and those things also, right? There's a wholeness to it. So what do you do when someone's sick and that is what you're creating? You, you, you take care of them. So this is not a detour, this stay in the hospital. This is not a...

Katie (38:45.269)

You pivot. Yeah.

Amy Kemp (38:49.577)

Now I'm off track. This is actually what I'm creating. I am creating the wholeness of my life, not, and my business is part of it. I love my work. I love to build a business, right? But I'm, I'm creating the wholeness of my life. And so there is no detour in that. That is actually a vital part. That is the most important priority in that case, right? And so as soon as I did that shift,

Katie (38:56.139)

Hmm.

Katie (39:08.139)

Love that.

Katie (39:16.374)

Yep.

Amy Kemp (39:18.729)

I never felt stressed again. And guess what? Everything is fine. The business is fine. My clients were totally fine. My kid was in the hospital. Like there is, they're not, it's not that big of a deal. It's just your brain playing tricks with you. So.

Katie (39:22.657)

Love it.

The world didn't end.

Katie (39:32.031)

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, and I think as women, tends to happen so much. But I love that you repositioned that in your head. Because I always say my kids are my MICs, my most important clients. Because I can do a lot of things over in life, but I can't do my kids over. And not that I'm single -handedly responsible for how they turn out, but I do have to live with what I did or didn't do during the time they were under my roof, right? That is a big thing.

Amy Kemp (39:48.905)

That's very true.

Amy Kemp (39:57.833)

And, and since yours are seven and nine and mine are 20, 18, and 13, I will tell you.

Katie (40:03.222)

Yeah.

Katie (40:07.874)

speaking to that space.

Amy Kemp (40:09.641)

I was going through pictures last night of Anthony, you know, little tiny Anthony, and now he's six, five and leaving for college in August. And it sounds so cliche, but I'm so glad I, I was looking at the whole, the whole time and not just the business, right? And I've built really successful businesses. So it's not like you have to sacrifice one for the other, but I'm so glad that I,

Katie (40:16.406)

Yeah.

Katie (40:21.495)

Hmm. Hmm.

Katie (40:28.169)

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Katie (40:37.43)

Right.

Amy Kemp (40:39.304)

did keep that in mind. If I win everywhere else but lose here, none of it is worth it. None of it is worth it, right? And so there's this quickness. I think I just heard someone describe parenting like a roller coaster where it goes really slow when they're little babies. Like the days are so long. And then they get to school and really, especially when they get to like junior high, it's just like a whoosh down and then they're out.

Katie (40:42.199)

Yeah. Yep. Yeah. 100%.

Katie (40:58.749)

That is such a good analogy. Yep.

Amy Kemp (41:08.905)

I mean, it's boom and they're my daughters graduating from college, right? I'm just thinking, I just graduated from college. So just keep the wholeness of what you're creating in mind as you're creating a business that you actually are creating a life and your business is a vehicle that provides a part of that. But it doesn't.

Katie (41:09.121)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie (41:13.015)

Mmm.

wise words.

I have that exact same thought, Amy. I mean, it might've been 25 years ago, but you know, just saying.

Katie (41:30.25)

Mmm.

Amy Kemp (41:36.136)

provide everything. It is not the life. It is a part of it. No! No, correct. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Katie (41:36.353)

Yeah.

It can't, it's not meant to. If you ask that of it, it will never deliver for you. It will never deliver. I love that we're getting thought bubbles popping up. This is such a good conversation. last final nugget that you wanna share with our audience as they leave today, if there's one thing they take away from this, what do you want? Maybe that person and we'll really hone in on it, but the person who is sitting here and going, I am tired, I am weary, I have done my business, it is where it should be.

but I don't feel whole. What would you look into their eyes and say in this moment?

Amy Kemp (42:12.296)

Yes, I would say never ever apologize for investing time and resources in growing you to get to the next place you want to go. It's not about working harder or longer. It is about deeper roots, deeper understanding of who you are and what is really actually holding you back. And figuring that out rarely happens in isolation.

Katie (42:16.918)

Hmm.

Amy Kemp (42:40.488)

I have invested more money and more time in growing me than I have in any system or structure in my business because in the end that's what really creates growth is me. And so I just would say don't apologize, figure it out, make it happen, make time for it. It is a worthy and absolutely critical piece of growing a business is really growing you first.

Katie (43:11.275)

I love it. Amy, a beautiful conversation. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, your heart, your family, your stories, and all the things you've learned. Some come easy, some come hard, but for sitting in this space with us today, it means the world.

Amy Kemp (43:21.991)

Thank you so much.

Katie (43:24.769)

Take care.