The relationship between the interior designer and architect can, at times, be a tense one. But certainly, there are ways to improve this partnership. These collaborations affect the overall flow and feel of a space for a lifetime! So, what can designers and architects be more mindful of with future projects?

Wes Rutledge joins me for this conversation that explores the dynamic relationship between architects and designers. How can architects and designers contribute their expertise without encroaching on each other's domains? How can architects advocate for the involvement of designers at the conceptual stages? And how does that ultimately impact a design project? Join us for this colorful and functional conversation!

In this episode, we cover:

• What designers don’t understand about working with architects

• How to explain to clients the value of having the designer at the table early

• The 3 things designers and architects can do to make life better for each other

• How designers can win over architects when they’re brought in late to a design

• How to balance efficiency, quality, uniqueness, intentionality, codes, & budget of a design

• How to keep creative juices flowing to stay fresh with designs

Did any examples and/or solutions in the episode ring true? We’d love to hear from you! Say hi on Instagram!

More about Wes Rutledge, Architect, Beck Design

Wes is a licensed architect in Illinois and Oklahoma with over two decades of experience. His impressive career spans diverse projects, showcasing his team-centered and collaborative approach. Originally from Newport, Arkansas, Wes pursued his architectural education at Oklahoma State University before gaining valuable experience in Chicago for five years. For the past 15+ years, he has been making significant contributions to the architectural landscape in Oklahoma. Beyond his professional accomplishments, Wes finds joy in being a devoted parent to his 13-year-old son and enjoys a fulfilling relationship with his girlfriend and her three boys. As an integral member of Beck Design, Wes continues to leave a lasting impact on the built environment through visionary designs and a dedication to creating sustainable and functional spaces for communities.

Links and Mentioned Resources

Interior Design Resources

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

The Glass House

Sue Wadden from Sherwin-Williams

Connect with Katie Decker-Erickson

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Business Coaching for Interior Designers

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More about Colorful Conversations with Katie

Welcome to “Colorful Conversations with Katie”! Join us for a vibrant webcast where we seamlessly blend the realms of design and business in a fun and professional setting. Available on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms!

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The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Colorful Conversations with Katie podcast follows

Katie Decker-Erickson

Welcome to colorful conversations with Katie from exploring the latest design trends to uncovering strategies for building successful ventures. We dive deeper into the colorful world where aesthetics meet profitability, all while balancing work with life. Whether you're a budding designer or a savvy entrepreneur, this webcast is your go to source for inspiration, insights and a dash of lively conversation.

Today's guest is going to be Wes Rutledge. Wes is a licensed architect in Illinois and Oklahoma with over two decades of experience, very impressive. His impressive career spans a diverse range of projects showcasing his team centered and collaborative approach. Originally from Newport, Arkansas, Wes pursued his architectural education at Oklahoma State University before gaining valuable experience in Chicago for five years. For the past 15 years, more than really. He has been making significant contributions to the architectural landscape in Oklahoma. Beyond his professional accomplishments, Wes finds joy in being a devoted parent to his 13 -year -old son and enjoys a fulfilling relationship with his girlfriend and her three boys. As an integral member of Beck Design, Wes continues to leave a lasting impact on the built environment through visionary designs and a dedication to creating sustainable and functional spaces for communities. So without further ado, welcome, Wes. We're so excited to have you on the show.

Wes Rutledge

Thanks, Katie. It's good to be here. It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Katie Decker-Erickson

I know I was thinking back on Wes and I first met a lot of years ago when I was pregnant with my first baby back in the day working on the glass house over the Oklahoma interstate. And it's fun to come back full circle. It's been fun to watch each other's careers and see what we're up to and what we're doing. And we touch base from time to time. And Wes is my go -to when I have an architectural question as an architect. So that being said, what do you feel like, and that's kind of where I want to start today's conversation. What do you feel like designers, don't understand when it comes to working with an architect.

Wes Rutledge

Hmm. It's a good question. You know, I have to recognize that there's probably a sentiment out there that sometimes it's difficult to work with an architect. I imagine you never said that as designers. Well, maybe I could shed a little light on that. I think, I think maybe a lot of that stems from, you know, when, when a builder wants to, or owner wants to build a building first person they contact is an architect. Typically, you know, you have to start with the design and you know that architects tend to develop a vision for the building from the outset. They tend to have a vision for the interior as well as the exterior. Um, so what I found is best. And I think the key to it is if. All the designers are around the table at the outset of the project and everybody knows what everybody's role is. Cause you know, there's thousands of decisions that have to get made before design is finalized for a building. Absolutely. And a lot of them are contingent on the decision before them. So, you know, when somebody, when someone else comes into the design process late in the game and make changes, They may not understand the ripple effect that has, you know, downstream or upstream, whichever stream that is, but you know, the decisions that have already been made, um, get, get kind of short -circuited with late minute decisions. I think there's some frustration there that happens with architects. Um, but yeah, that'd be my advice is try to try to get in the process early.

Katie Decker-Erickson

I so agree. It's interesting, you know, as designers, I often like to say we can design the Taj, but if you can't build it structurally, it doesn't matter. Right. And so partnering, I think looking at it as a true partnership with your architect and also encouraging the clients to say, Hey, you're going to need a designer on this and they should be here at the table. Now there, we still run into this all the time. We have the building built or work 80 % of the way there. Can you finish designing it? Well, I can give you paint colors and some wallpaper, but if you're looking for flow patterns and functionality and end users job goals being met, like we've missed a lot of that opportunity. And I think a lot of that just requires education industry wide, as far as educating the client on to your point, the value of having everybody at the table from the outset of the project.

Wes Rutledge

Agreed. Absolutely.

Katie Decker-Erickson

How do you encourage your clients to make sure. whichever designer you're working with, or if it's someone in -house, how do you explain the value to them of having a designer at the table from the very beginning?

Wes Rutledge

Well, we automatically do that because we have interior designers on staff and they are very talented people to work with. They're excellent at what they do. They've got the track record to prove it. So, you know, we always, that is always part of the conversation with the client, you know, even from the interview process, we always bring our interior designers with us, show what they can do. And, you know, a lot of times clients, that's what their focus is anyway. They want to know what the interior environment is more so than what the exterior is going to look like. They want to know what space they're going to, you know, stand up. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it's integral for us as a firm, it's, it's an integral, uh, process to be the interior designer and the architect working together. I mean, that's, that's what we do. We, we, we kind of had the philosophy that the interior should, should speak the same language as the exterior and that absolute transitions between outside and end should be seamless. So, I mean, it's an integral part of the process for us.

Katie Decker-Erickson

So at the risk of sounding like a Debbie Downer, I don't want to say. Maybe your top three pet peeves in working with designers will flip it on its head and we'll say, what are the three things that designers can do to make their life better for the architect and the architects life better for the designer? What are the three things that you would say? Top of mind that you're like, I love it when a designer does X it makes my job so much easier. And I want to work with them again.

Wes Rutledge

Great. Good, good question. Well, I'll tell you the thing I liked working about with you and. You know, you didn't really follow this process when we first met, you came on kind of late in the game and you, and you know, but, but you were, you recognized the process. You've been through it before and you weren't coming in trying to push your opinions on everybody, but you came to the table with, you know, great design decisions and you were, you were really good at communicating those ideas. I think, I think that's, uh, maybe the missing link on some, uh, disagreements that happen is just communication about what the ideas are and how they fit into the architect architecture as a whole. I really appreciated about you because that's what you said to me. You said, you know, we, I understand there's a vision for this building. I'm trying to enhance it. I'm not trying to take it over. And, and that was, that went a long way with me. So I, I think that kind of approach to working with an architect certainly goes a long way.

Katie Decker-Erickson

That's really kind of you. When we got brought into that job, it was well underway and you had designed a beautiful redesign of this. If you have not seen, we'll put in the show notes, the glass house that runs over the, it's an Oklahoma icon and it's beautiful. And Wes did a fabulous job of creating a restoration that maintained the intrinsic value and architectural integrity of the space while still updating it and meeting the needs of three tenants, I want to say are in there, three commercial tenants. And so it gets an immense amount of traffic. And how do we do that in a strategic way? And so it was, I'm not going to lie. It was very intimidating to think this is already gone and now I'm being brought in. And I was so afraid of having anyone feel like, Oh, great. Here comes the designer. She's got a vision. You know, as designers, I think it's so important. It's easy to want to come in and do that, especially when we come in late to the table, but just to tread lightly and to appreciate all the work that has gone in by the architect and realize. Yeah. Coming back to the word partnership again, I really think it is a partnership that requires, I appreciate that you were respectful out of the gate. I don't think that always happens either. It's like, well, I'm the architect. It's my stamp. So that's cute, but that's not going to happen. And sometimes that is the case. Like if there's a load bearing issue, yeah, that is your stamp and we should absolutely. But if you can talk through something like, Hey, this is the aesthetic goal I'm trying to achieve. How can we get there? Or this is the functionality I want out of the space. I get, it can't happen the way I drew it up, but how can we get. I think having that relationship and that partnership is so incredibly valuable. So what would you say to a designer who gets put on a job with an architect who doesn't approach it the way you do, who more comes from the old school? It's my stamp and the client hired them. You had no say in who the architect was, but now you have to work through it with them. How do you win them over from your perspective? How do you win that architect over when the client has chosen the architect, the client has chosen you as the designer, but for whatever reason there, this is just not going well or the architect looks at you more as being dead weight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Wes Rutledge

You know, in any project it's you're managing personalities as much as you are the project.

Katie Decker-Erickson

Oh, wise words.

Wes Rutledge

So, you know, it comes down to the individuals. I mean, it's how you approach anything. I mean, it's a transaction at the store. If you're rude and a transaction at the store, you're probably not going to get good service. And I think it's very true. I think it's about how you, how you approach people and how you, uh, try to have mutual respect for one another and the language that you use, obviously. I mean, I, I know that's probably not a good.

Katie Decker-Erickson

No, I think it's great. But I think the human element.

Wes Rutledge

Yeah, of course. I mean, it's personalities. You're going to have some architects that, you know, this is their domain and this is their design and, and there's uncompromising positions are going to take. And, and that's just a personality thing. You know, I totally agree. Take the position that, you know, you come to the table with the best ideas that you can. And if you can, convince the people who are paying for the project that they're good ideas and then they'll happen. If you don't, they won't. The infighting does nothing but hurt the project.

Katie Decker-Erickson

Well said. Let's talk cookie cutter design. This is something we've been running into with architects. Not so much with the architects, but with...mechanical, electrical, and there's such strict requirements now when it comes to building codes, energy codes, all the codes in the world. And sometimes it's just exhausting. And so what ends up happening is everyone copies and pastes what they did on their last project that got approved and met the metrics and on we go. But the problem is we, out of that, we don't really get unique, fabulous, amazing design. And so there's this tension between efficiency, and quality and uniqueness and intentionality. How do we balance that without ringing up a ridiculous tab for the client by creating something new every single time, while still making something unique and designing and creating something unique that it feels bespoke, but we're not doing 80 % of the work over every single time. How do you balance that?

Wes Rutledge

Great question. I would say probably in your part of the country, the codes are even stricter and you have more red tape to get through and committees to get in front of. It's a tough job that we have, you know? So I mean, it's part of the design equation. It's part of, it's part of what goes into the mix from the outset. If you know what you're designing for, I think you find ways to optimize the look of it or optimize the, the use of it. There's always a dollar, dollar sign attack to new codes that come out. I mean, almost always a new, um,You know, new ordinances or restrictions that they all come with a dollar sign. Yep. I don't like to see that, um, that kind of regulatory costs go up, but what are you going to do?

Katie Decker-Erickson

Yeah, no, we're often on the receiving end of it in that you have to, and I think you're right. It is a very tough job. And those of us, hopefully that do it well, make it look easy to the client. Right. Meanwhile, I often correlate it to the duck and the pond, you know, It looks so smooth sailing above the water, but below we're paddling, paddling, paddling, paddling. And I feel like that's especially true from an architectural perspective when you're pulling in electrical codes and building codes and energy codes and all of these mandates, it's an immense responsibility. And I think as designers, it's important to respect that like when that stamp does go on there. And the reason there is the stamp is because that then becomes the liable party. And I appreciate that. I'm not going to lie. I really do. But to also understand that there are tensions around that and balancing that. As far as cookie cutter design, how do you keep your creative juices flowing? Is it, is it going out with your son and taking a hike or fishing or gaming together? Or what is it that like keeps you coming back to your projects each time or when in a project you feel like. Okay, this well is not running as deep as I needed to in the creative realm, which we've all felt if you haven't, it's a common for you. What do you do to revamp, regroup and rejuvenate?

Wes Rutledge

Take some time off just in general. Yeah. I try not to bring work home with me as much as possible, but you know, with when COVID happened, everybody's working at home and connectivity with home got even more connected, I guess than it.

Katie Decker-Erickson

Then it kind of cannibalized really. Yeah.

Wes Rutledge

Yeah. So, you know, if things happen and email comes in and you have to go, you know, respond to an email or something, it's right there and you got to do it. And that's, and that's okay. I mean, to me, it means I'm still at home and I still get to be around my kid and family and, and that's so there's, there's trade -offs to it. But, uh, as far as the, the cookie cutter design, I, you know, we don't, that our firm particularly we're kind of a small smaller ish firm but we have very talented people and you know very experienced people and and we take on large projects and they're always you know with the right budget they're always kind of unique um just the ask of us is is to be unique so i love that we don't tend to do a lot of cookie cutter stuff here. Uh, so I don't know if I could speak to that that well. I is the question more about how do you, how do you stay fresh with your designs?

Katie Decker-Erickson

Yeah. How do you, like I always say, pour out of an empty cup. So as designers, you know, as we're creating these spaces that hopefully are designing people back in a beautiful way and changing their view of the world or who they think they are in it. How are we. filling ourselves up so then we can then design that space. Like what is it that builds our cup as a designer? And sometimes it's as simple for me as just floating through an architectural digest. And it doesn't have to be this, I don't want to say like really intentional high -faluting super pretentious thing. It can be, you know, just a couple of inputs can make all the difference in the world. I didn't see the world or I didn't see that that way. That's interesting. Or that catches my eye. What is that for you?

Wes Rutledge

Kind of the same, you know, I mean, obviously on social media, like everybody else and you know, I subscribed to DZN and architectural pages of some sorts and a lot of architectural sketching pages. I love that stuff. And I love to see a new artist and what they're doing. So I, I kind of draw from that, I think. And of course you're going to take some inspiration from what others are doing. And you don't want to, you don't want to. repeat or copy or plagiarize what someone else has done. But just like you said, sort of that, that eye opening moment, Oh, there's other things possible. And then to me, that gets me going. That gets my mind, um, going in a different direction. And then, and then you plug into the project that you're, that's in front of you and you make it, you tailor those ideas for that client and what's going on there. It helps you think, you know, what are their needs? What is their environment? need to look like or want to look like and how do they want, how do you want them to feel in those spaces? You know, it just snowballs from there.

Katie Decker-Erickson

I so agree with you. It was so interesting. We had the privilege of spending Christmas in Maui last year and I was actually working on a big project out of Phoenix at the time. And after being in Maui, which is Chuck full of blues and greens and Hibiscus flowers that are these bright, vibrant. And I came back and did this building. And it was way more pigment than I probably would normally use. And the client absolutely loved it, which was great. But I'm like, it felt really good dropping it into a Phoenix environment. Cause Phoenix is literally getting so hot. And so to cool that environment down, but I know that I would not have chosen those colors if I had not spent time. Actually it breaks my heart. Actually we were in Lahaina, which as you know is, Oh, right. The fire now. is completely incinerated. And it's fascinating to me to think of the story of design and that I went and spent time in those spaces with those people and appreciated the beauty of that culture. And it changed me enough to come back and really change the way I designed a place in Phoenix and the connection now between Maui and Phoenix to diametrically opposed environments, especially from a natural standpoint, right? and just the impact that that will have. Like, I love knowing that that is there considering that that entire community is just heart wrenching is basically obliterated. Yeah. I was looking at pictures of that. It's awful. It's devastating. Our hearts and purse go to the people of Maui in every single way. And you know, it brings up an interesting point about nature and experience and travel. I think when we talked with, um, Sue from us, uh, Sherwin Williams, which by the way, we'll put a hyperlink to that episode as well about what helps her choose colors every single year for Sherwin. And how does she go about choosing that? And she said, travel, travel, travel, travel, travel. And I feel like travel is so powerful and we don't have to think of travel is going to Maui or Italy and seeing beautiful frescoes and all those things. Sometimes it's just like going to the local park and reminding yourself of what nature feels like. And even the color story of nature, starting with. black dirt and migrating up to white clouds and all the colors that come in between. Like, is there a place you love to go that you feel like a natural place that rejuvenates you?

Wes Rutledge

I tell you last year about this time we were up in your neck of the woods in Seattle and man, I was so, I've never been up there. I was just so blown away by how different it was and the colors and the, you know, just the atmosphere. I mean, it was, and we saw some beautiful buildings. I've got some great architecture up there. It's really nice community spaces. And I just, I was really impressed by that area.

Katie Decker-Erickson

So interesting question for you. When you came back from that trip, do you feel like your designs were impacted by the experiences or what you saw in any tangible way?

Wes Rutledge

I'm just, I think so. I think I started to use a lot more redwood colors. Yeah. There's a lot of redwoods. Get enough moisture up here. I'm just saying.

Katie Decker-Erickson

This is such a good conversation. What else would you like to add to it that we've missed that you think it's important before we go into our rapid fire round, the designers understand when working with an architect that most do not even seasoned veterans of the design world. What would you say, make sure you know this when you sit down to work with any architect that we just aren't seeing because we don't live every day in your boots.

Wes Rutledge

Right. Um, you know, I've, I've noticed there's kind of two different. types of designers. There's the people who just pick out the colors and then there are people who think about the space and you're, you're obviously one of those people who can, who do both. And that's what you need. I mean, we know, yeah. You know, you've got to be able to talk to an architect about the impact of the space, not just what color you think's pretty today. Right. I think what kind of feeling are you trying to convey within the space with this design decision or this color, this fabric or. I think, I think that helps an architect be more comfortable with, you know, a designer around the table.

Katie Decker-Erickson

That's great advice. Absolutely great advice. Thank you, Wes. This has been such a good conversation. I'm here for every part of it. Let's go into our rapid fire round. That's always so fun. I love being able to ask these questions and have people chime in. What is one book that you feel like has changed your life? Be it personally or professionally the most.

Wes Rutledge

Okay. I'm going to say it was Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. I think that book impacted me more than any other. I kind of a weird name, but, uh, to me, that was a book that, uh, that really kind of found a common thread between science and art. And that's kind of what we do for a living. So I think it's kind of fits in with, with architecture and design.

Katie Decker-Erickson

Beautiful. And we're going to put a hyperlink to that in our show notes. So if you are driving or out and about or moving or taking a walk with your earbuds in, you know, that we'll have it in the show notes for you. Okay. Number two, what piece of advice would you have told yourself when you were 20? I mean, that wasn't that long ago. Right. You mean last year, last week,

Wes Rutledge

by Apple stock, how many people have said that to you?

Katie Decker-Erickson

Oh my gosh. Don't you wish and Amazon?

Wes Rutledge

But I would say, I would say to my yourself in bed, you know, invest your dollars early. Um, compound interest is a miracle of the banking industry. So, you know, the sooner you do it more, the better off you are later. I, you know, that would be good advice from a design point of view. I would say, you know, make sure you're working on your communication skills.

Katie Decker-Erickson

Um, love that. I think that is where most breakdowns happen in design, whether it's between the client, the architect, the GC, whatever it is, it's usually lack of communication or miscommunication, which is why I always appreciate that you have picked up the phone because I think we rely on email way too much and underestimate the power of a phone call. And sometimes you just have to talk it out, which I appreciate you have always taken my calls, which means the world, even when it's about a project you're not on, I can pick up the phone and we can brainstorm it, which. Just speaks to your level of professionalism and communication. Number three, what is your best time management hack? Best time management hack.

Wes Rutledge

Yep. Well, put everything on your outlet calendar for sure. Everything personal, private business, all of it. It's all got to show up on a screen or it doesn't get done. I, yes, I'm there for that. I would say the other thing is, you know, I've found that if. You know, I forgot my list of tasks for the day. Do the most arduous or toughest one first. And then it's downhill from there. I had some advice.

Katie Decker-Erickson

Eat the frog. Just get out front. That's right. Yeah. The frog get after it and move on. Well, until your point about the calendar, I always joke that if my, my digital calendar goes down, like it will be the end of the world. Like, yeah. Don't expect to hear from me. I will not show up for anything. You don't have to send me alerts on my phone. You don't have to, if it's on the calendar, it's going to happen. And if it's not, well, it's not. It's about that simple. All right, that's a wrap. Thank you for joining us for another insightful episode of Colorful Conversations with Katie. I hope you've enjoyed our discussion today and found valuable insights to help you thrive in your design business and life as we merge them together here.

To all our listeners, thank you for joining us on this journey of learning and growth. Your enthusiasm and dedication to honing your business skills as design professionals inspires me to keep bringing you valuable content. So remember to subscribe to our podcast so you never miss an episode. If you have any questions or topics you would like me to cover in future episodes, please reach out. We want to hear from you. If you would like one -on -one time with me, I'd love to discuss your firm and plan intentional steps for growth and success.

You can book a call with me on our website at www .colorworks .coach. Until next time, keep dreaming, keep designing, and mastering the art of running a successful interior design business that scales to your life. This is Katie Erickson signing off. Bye for now.