Running a business is challenging—period. But growing a business in a sustainable way that supports your lifestyle—that’s a non negotiable. But how exactly do you do that? Does someone have a roadmap you can follow? The answer… is yes! And she’s here to share exactly how she’s scaled her interior design firm rapidly but in a way that also supports her and her family’s best interests.

Jeanne Collins is an award winning interior designer who left the corporate world behind just four years ago! She quickly gained notoriety and within the last year published a memoir and was featured in Architectural Digest. Jeanne shares how wellness and interior design go together, how to establish work life boundaries while growing a firm, and how becoming an interior designer made her a better mother. Break out your notebooks, enjoy the conversation, and make sure you stick around for the Coaching Corner!

In this episode, we cover:

• What inspired Jeanne to write her memoir

• How wellness and interior design go together

• The power of saying yes especially as a female designer

• The importance of surrounding yourself with experts and guides

• How to scale your interior design business to your lifestyle

• How working moms master time management

• How Jeanne grew her firm while setting healthy work-life-balance boundaries

• The sustainable way Jeanne grew her design firm and notoriety in the industry

• How brand recognition actually pays off and helps your business grow

I’m quite confident all the working moms in this community enjoyed that conversation! Walking that tightrope of business owner and caretaker can feel incredibly challenging at times. We hope you found this episode helpful and inspirational! Take a moment to say hello to us on social media—you’ll find the links below.

More about Jeanne Collins

Jeanne is an award winning interior designer who left the corporate world behind to find her true self through design and internal reflection. Her firm, JerMar Designs, works with executives and entrepreneurs focusing on projects that combine both sophistication and balance with inner and outer wellness. Jeanne is an Architectural Digest AD Pro 2024 featured designer, winner of the 2022 Luxe Magazine RED Award, and she was nominated as an HGTV Designer of the Year. She chronicles her journey in the approach that changed her life and work in her memoir 2 Feet In: Lessons from an All in Life. Stay tuned also for this week's Coaching Corner. 

Links and Mentioned Resources

Coaching Strategy Session

Two Feet In: Lessons from an All-In Life (Book)

Profit First (Book)

Related Episodes

Brand Identity for Designers

Brand Strategy for Moms

Identifying Your Target Audience

Connect with Jeanne Collins

Website

Instagram

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Connect with Katie Decker-Erickson

Book Your Coaching Strategy Session with Katie!

Business Coaching for Interior Designers

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More about Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design

As an interior designer, do you struggle with balancing your passion for creativity with the practical demands and hopes of running a successful business? Whether starting a new venture or scaling an existing firm, the complexities can be overwhelming. Welcome to “Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design,” a podcast designed to bridge the gap between creativity and entrepreneurship. 

This masterclass is hosted by the dynamic Katie Decker-Erickson, a seasoned expert with nearly 20 years of experience in interior design, a Master's degree in Business Administration, and creator and owner of a multimillion-dollar interior design firm. 

Each episode offers innovative and actionable business strategies, engaging conversations, and practical guidance to help you build and grow a successful design business. Tune in every other Friday on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms to ignite your creative spark and sharpen your entrepreneurial skills. (Topics and language are kid/family friendly.)

This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you. 

This episode of Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design is brought to you in partnership with Leah Bryant Co.

The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design follows

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:00:00]:

How do you know when to hire a business coach, assistant, bookkeeper, and so on? Scaling your business to your lifestyle, what does this look like for an interior designer? How could you establish work life boundaries while simultaneously growing your firm? Well, we are diving into all this and more with Jean Collins. Jean is an award winning interior designer who left the corporate world behind to find her true self through design and internal reflection. Her firm, Jermarr Designs, works with executives and entrepreneurs focusing on projects that combine both sophistication and balance with inner and outer wellness. Jean is an Architectural Digest AD Pro 2024 featured designer, winner of the 2022 Luxe Magazine RED Award, and she was nominated as an HGTV Designer of the Year. She chronicles her journey in the approach that changed her life and work in her memoir 2 Feet In: Lessons from an All in Life. Stay tuned also for this week's Coaching Corner. Do you love interior design, but can't make the business side work? You've come to the right place. Welcome to Success by Design, mastering the business of interior design.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:01:10]:

Whether you wanna elevate in your current interior design firm, start your own firm, or move the needle when it comes to your existing firm's trajectory, this is your master class, and I'm your host, Katie Decker-Erickson Erickson. Learn from my mistakes as I built a coast to coast multimillion dollar interior design firm. I share nearly 20 years of serving as a university professor of undergraduate and graduate business courses with you. And best of all, I bring in experts in all things business and interior design. Class starts now. Hey, Jean. Welcome to the show.

Jeanne Collins [00:01:43]:

Thank you so much, Katie Decker-Erickson, for having me.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:01:45]:

We are so excited to have you on. First of all, congratulations on the book. That's a huge coup.

Jeanne Collins [00:01:50]:

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:01:51]:

Also, congratulations on Architectural Digest.

Jeanne Collins [00:01:55]:

That was kinda cool too. Thanks. Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:01:57]:

Wasn't that cool? You're having, like, a day in the sun. What was that like? Was that, like, the most amazing thing?

Jeanne Collins [00:02:03]:

I was like, the people on this list are, like, famous. Yeah. I was like, let's just apply. You never know. Maybe they want some normal people on the list. I don't know. But, like, yeah, the people on the list are, like, you know, my idols and people that I follow. And I'm like, Victoria Hagen's on the list.

Jeanne Collins [00:02:23]:

Like, oh my goodness.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:02:24]:

Right?

Jeanne Collins [00:02:25]:

Yeah. That was really cool. And they responded, like, right away saying yes, and that was equally as surprising.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:02:30]:

That's such a huge honor. And I love that you've written a book about scaling into that. Because you don't just end up on that list even though you're being very humble. You don't end up on that list because you're just starting out of the gate. It's because you honestly know something about what you're doing and how you're doing it, which I think you clearly very much do. In fact, it led you to write the book. What else led you to write the book?

Jeanne Collins [00:02:52]:

So I didn't start out wanting to write a book in full transparency. I was sort of like, you know Yeah. Hey. I'm like every designer. I'd love someday to have a coffee table book. Wouldn't we all? Like, we all would love to have a coffee table book of our work. And so I always said, someday, I'll write a coffee table book, but I hadn't figured out what my point of difference was gonna be other than just pretty photos. So I really wasn't planning on writing one, but I had subscribed to get a bunch of emails from a company that helps writers.

Jeanne Collins [00:03:21]:

And a guy had sent me an email. He was doing a free Zoom seminar for an hour and a half about writing a book. And I kinda opened the email. I read it and then closed it. And then a couple days later, I saw it again in my inbox, and I read it again. And I just thought, maybe I looked at my calendar. I had the hour and a half free, and I just kinda thought, you know, my whole life is based on these, like, crossroads where I just say yes to things and certain things happen. And I was like, you know what? Why not? Why not? I love to learn.

Jeanne Collins [00:03:49]:

Why not? You never know. Can't be wasted time. It's an hour and a half. And so I participated in this hour and a half Zoom about writing a book. And by the time the hour and a half was over, I had an entire outline for my book, which was not about interior design. Amazing. Yeah. It was more about lessons from my life that have led me to be an interior designer and also have led me to a life of wellness and then how wellness and interior design go together at the end of the book.

Jeanne Collins [00:04:14]:

So it wasn't planned, believe it or not. But after I had the full outline right in front of me, I was like, well, now I have to write this.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:04:22]:

I come too far down the path.

Jeanne Collins [00:04:24]:

Well, I was like, oh my goodness. There actually is a story here and which was kind of amazing. And Yeah. Writing for me is very similar to interior design. When I walk into someone's home, I can see the finished version of it within the first five minutes. I can see what their house would look like with walls moved, you know, how things can look, how things can flow. And I see it, like, right away. I see it.

Jeanne Collins [00:04:48]:

And the end version ends up not exactly the same, but very similar to how I see it when I first walk in. And when the outline was there, I was like, I see the book. Oh, wow. Okay. I guess I need to create this because I see it, and I'm gifted with the ability to see the book. And so I need to now write the book.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:05:05]:

You said something very intriguing in there. The just say yes has opened so many doors for you in life. I wanna go back to that point. Because so oftentimes, especially as women, I think we're overwhelmed and we're inundated with so many requests. We're always taught, just say no. It's okay to say no. You have permission to say no. But sometimes there's just as much power in saying yes.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:05:24]:

What doors has that opened for you, and how did you figure that out?

Jeanne Collins [00:05:27]:

Yeah. So and I am a huge proponent of say no. Right? Like, make yourself a priority and say no to certain things. But I'm an even larger proponent of saying yes to things. And so for me, it's when something comes across your desk that makes you pause or makes you think or you get invited to go somewhere and you're not really sure you really wanna go, but there's something about it that's a little bit intriguing, I say yes. And as a result of that, honestly, that is why I'm an interior designer because I worked in corporate America for 22 years. I ran an advertising sales team. I didn't do this.

Jeanne Collins [00:06:01]:

I didn't do anything creative other than speak for a living pretty much. But when I was writing about maybe what I wanna do with the next phase of my life, being creative kept coming back up. And so I was like, you know what? I need to say yes to this. And I said yes to a career coach, and I said yes to a business coach after I started my business. And that was life altering for me. You know, just joining those half an hour Zoom calls where you maybe learn something, and that might lead down the road to you meeting other people, I have that happen to me all the time.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:06:33]:

I love this for two reasons. 1, you're talking about growth mindset and just getting out there and being willing to think outside the box and try something. But then 2, also knowing what you don't know and not being afraid to find the people who do, the business coach. All the people that have come into your path to guide you to where you are today. I think there's sometimes this misunderstanding in the creative world that you should intuitively know all these things or you're not gifted with creativity. Right? And nothing could be further from the truth. This is a whole thing to figure out in hiring people. In fact, we were just talking about this on our team this morning, and we had our technical glitch, and it was so fabulous.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:07:15]:

The person on our team sent it off to our IT person, who is just a gem, and he had it solved in 15 minutes. And we had this lovely conversation about, we don't even know what the acronym problem was that came through the email, but isn't it lovely when you find people who are like, oh, yeah. That's that that and that, and we can whip that out for you in no time flat. And it totally changes. You could've spent hours, and you would've figured it out googling him. But don't do that. Hire the right people to come in and do and give you what you need to succeed in your business, especially when you're starting out, which I think can be hard. Was that a temptation of yours to deviate from spending that money as opposed to saying, I need to make the capital investment, or do you feel like your corporate mindset and experience informed you, no.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:07:55]:

I actually need to hire these people to get where I need to be.

Jeanne Collins [00:07:58]:

Oh, I knew right away I needed to hire these people. Because the the thing about interior design as a business is when you go to school for interior design, which I did, I went back to school and got 2 certificate programs, when I started my business

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:08:10]:

Well done.

Jeanne Collins [00:08:11]:

Is they don't teach you anything about running a business.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:08:14]:

Agreed.

Jeanne Collins [00:08:15]:

They teach you very little about the business side of the interior design business. Now I understand business. I have an MBA, and I understand business from my corporate experience, but the business side of interior design is incredibly unique and very complex. Even just bookkeeping, you can't just hire a normal bookkeeper. So I knew right away that, like, there were so many things I didn't know, And I didn't set out saying, oh, I wanna own my own business. I wanna be an entrepreneur. I would have never actually said I wanted to do that. So right away, that's why I hired a business coach, you know, a bookkeeper.

Jeanne Collins [00:08:50]:

It took me making 2 mistakes with the state and not filing the right taxes for me to be like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I thought I was following the directions, but I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm way in over my head before I immediately hired a bookkeeper. And I think one of the things I have the pleasure, let's say, of having learned in corporate America was the greatest team is made up of people with different strengths.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:09:12]:

Yes.

Jeanne Collins [00:09:12]:

And if you're going to build a good team no matter what business you're in, it means that you're surrounding yourself by people that have strengths that you don't. And that doesn't mean you're weak. It means that you recognize what you're really good at. And so if you're really good at creativity and you're really good at the design, but you're not so good at AutoCAD, well, then outsource that AutoCAD stuff and focus on what you're good at. Whatever it is, the client relationships, being a good designer. Most of us are pretty good at design, but we might not be good at the business side or understand the business side. And in order to have a successful interior design business, you really need to understand the business side of the business. And if you don't know it, hire someone to teach you.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:09:51]:

I so agree. In fact, shameless plug, but that's the whole reason we started the studio when I started offering strategy sessions because there are brilliant creatives. But it's I have a contract. It's 2 pages. If you have a 2 page contract, I can guarantee you, you do not have a contract.

Jeanne Collins [00:10:03]:

Correct.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:10:05]:

Book your strategy session now. You do not have a contract. Right?

Jeanne Collins [00:10:08]:

I agree. I agree. It should have lots of legal words in there that you don't necessarily understand or think you ever have to use either.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:10:15]:

Right. Right. And there's no way it can be comprehensive because to your point about bookkeeping in our industry being very unique, yes, absolutely 100% true. So are legalities, proprietary information, intellectual property information, who owns it at the end of the day. There's so many things that need to be unpacked, and I this is my mantra for my forties, but I'm very comfortable in what I don't know and finding the people that do. Right. Tell me what I don't know is the motto because there's so much that you can't possibly know. But if you can get those right people in the right seats doing the right thing, you're ready to roll.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:10:49]:

Correct. You're a mom? Yeah. To Maddie. How old's Maddie now?

Jeanne Collins [00:10:53]:

Maddie is now 17. She's a senior in high school. We're almost done. We have, like, 2 months left. It's crazy.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:10:58]:

Oh, I have no idea. Standing here on the other side of that tunnel, it feels more like the light of an oncoming train rather than light at the end of the tunnel.

Jeanne Collins [00:11:06]:

So great.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:11:07]:

You built into this, obviously. Let's talk about the scaling your business to your lifestyle. It's one of my most incredibly passionate topics. But I think as women, we don't oftentimes give ourselves the ability to scale into where you're at today and say, maybe that chapter isn't right now. In fact, that chapter in your book, the pregnant pause, like, talk through how you went about scaling to where you're at based on your lifestyle, not just scaling to scale.

Jeanne Collins [00:11:39]:

Right. Okay. So to take a step back for your listeners. So I used to be a vice president of sales, and I worked for an advertising company. I did not work interior design, and I did that for 22 years. And I was really proud of that. I was the only vice president of sales as a woman. I was a single mom the entire time.

Jeanne Collins [00:11:55]:

My daughter's 17. I've been a single mom for 17 years. But then I got fired in January of 2020, right before I was about to turn 50. And that was, you know, the greatest gift, yet the scariest moment at the same time being a single parent and COVID. And I have a huge mortgage and, yeah, all these things. And, also, like, who am I, and what do I wanna do with my life? And one of the things that I very quickly realized was that my job of travel and the stress of working for a public company and reporting basically to Wall Street because you're only as good as your last quarter True. Was killing me. And it was also killing me as a mom because I was so stressed all the time.

Jeanne Collins [00:12:33]:

And so my fuse was really short all the time. And even though I work from home, she'd come home and I'd be on the phone on conference calls. I'd be working until 10 o'clock at night. I'd be working on the weekends. I'd be working on Sunday. I was working all the time. And so one of the first things I decided when I decided I didn't wanna return to corporate America was I needed to find a lifestyle that would allow me more flexibility with her. And that meant some sort of environment where I would have permission to be able to drive her to school, pick her up from school, go to the doctor with her, be there for things.

Jeanne Collins [00:13:04]:

And that doesn't mean you work less hours, which is what everyone needs to realize. You don't work less.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:13:09]:

Oh, can you say that just one more time?

Jeanne Collins [00:13:12]:

I have found you do 2 things. You work different hours. You also work more efficiently because the amount of hours that you have is capped, and it's finite. And so it's okay. If I'm finishing today at 6 so that I can make dinner and go pick up my daughter and we can sit and have dinner together, and I'm not gonna resurface to my computer until 9, well and I need to be in bed by 10:30. That means in that hour and a half from 9 to 10:30, I am so focused and so efficient with my time. Because it's not like the whole day is ahead of me, and I can work all night or I can work on Saturday. So it's a mindset shift of, a, I work different hours, and, b, when I work, be really focused.

Jeanne Collins [00:13:53]:

Like, really focused on time blocking and tasks, and don't get distracted. Don't run off on a little tangent. If you got something to do, sit down and do it. And so that's why one of the reasons among many that I started my interior design business because I thought if I work for myself, I can work out at noon if I want to, and that's okay. And I was just ready for that, and I felt like I deserved that. And my daughter, you know, she was getting closer and closer to being at the age when she's not here anymore. And it goes by so fast, so fast. And people say, oh my god.

Jeanne Collins [00:14:24]:

It goes by so fast. But here's the other interesting thing that someone had told me when my was young and I was traveling all the time. And they had said, don't worry. When she gets older, it gets easier. The exact opposite.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:14:34]:

I don't feel like it's getting easier. Thank you for saying that because I feel like the conversations are changing so dramatically. And it's not like, no. Just go to bed. It is bedtime. Okay. My kids have started this thing called a chatty bubble. It'll be like, mom, I feel a chatty bubble coming on, which means there's something about their day they have to unpack.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:14:52]:

So 9 o'clock at night, I'm sitting there. I'm like, stay awake. Stay awake. You gotta pay attention to heart. You're tired. Because it's about to be the nugget of the day Uh-huh. About what's happening at school or who's being a little pisser on the playground Mhmm. Or it's about to get real with life skills.

Jeanne Collins [00:15:07]:

Right.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:15:07]:

I'm so glad you said that because I don't think it gets easier either.

Jeanne Collins [00:15:10]:

No. It doesn't. It gets different, but it doesn't get easier. And I found, at least for me, because I have a really good relationship with my daughter, she needs me more now even though now she can drive herself. You know? And now it's a totally different dynamic now that she drives. But the 2 years leading up to her driving, 14, 15, 16, she needed me more then than she did when she was little. And I was so glad I made the change to not travel and to be more present because the things that she needed me more present for are much bigger. When they're little, it's like, I want you to make me dinner and tuck me into bed and read me a story.

Jeanne Collins [00:15:47]:

Okay. But you know what? In 2 years, you're not gonna remember that I wasn't here. But when you're 15 and you're struggling with body image, friendships, potential dating, all these things that people being mean to you, social media bullying, like, these are big subjects that I feel like you owe it to your kids to be as present as you can during those years. Because then once they're out of the house, you wanna hope that they still reach out. But those are the years that you have to really build that connection where they do turn to you with these life issues. Drinking, drugs, I mean, all of it. School, study habits, the independence they get when they go to high school and how they manage that independence with them and the freedom to just

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:16:31]:

I was gonna say or don't. Right. There's the or don't.

Jeanne Collins [00:16:34]:

Or don't. But that's why you have to be present.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:16:37]:

Yeah.

Jeanne Collins [00:16:37]:

And so for me, being able to pick a career path that allowed me to be more present in what I can now see looking backwards, those were some of the most formative years for my daughter. And those were the years that I really was able to impact the type of young adult she's going to be. And I was able to do that by leading, for example, and by being there.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:16:57]:

And Yeah.

Jeanne Collins [00:16:58]:

Not just physically being there, but being present when you're there. Because believe me, I was the queen of she's talking to me and I'm actually sending emails or I'm on Slack or I'm like, I was doing all kinds of other things. You're not present.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:17:10]:

Just appreciate your transparent moment about that because I feel like there's a lot of women that struggle with that and struggle with social media and it being a borderline addiction because it's an outlet when sometimes the conversation with somebody who's 7 isn't always that exciting. I'm not gonna lie. Like, yesterday, we played live for an hour, and by the end of the hour, I was like, cocktails for everybody. Right? Because I can't do this one more time, but we were in it to win it. I think there's also that misnomer of quality versus quantity, and it goes back to, I think you can do that with your business. I don't think you can do that with your kids. I'd love your thoughts on that, but I feel like sometimes just being present long enough is when those things, they're like they bring it up on their terms. They're not like, oh, I have it 15 minutes with mom.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:17:52]:

Now I should discuss with her, like an agenda that we are used to having programmed in our corporate minds. It just takes hanging out with them for a hot minute, and then stuff does. It bubbles to the surface until that chatty bubble emerges, and then you have the conversation.

Jeanne Collins [00:18:05]:

Right. And I always found the time with my daughter, the two times that I got the most info out of her at those times where it was really important, I felt to be more present, where I didn't realize it until a little later was when I picked her up from school. And I used to pick her from school and be on conference calls the whole time, like, all the time. You know? But when you pick them up from school, they actually have stuff to say. When you take them to school in the morning, a friend of mine was like, oh, the morning time is the best. Not with my daughter. Girls, you know, she's quiet. Nothing happens in the morning.

Jeanne Collins [00:18:30]:

Nothing.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:18:31]:

Mhmm.

Jeanne Collins [00:18:31]:

But picking her up in the afternoon or picking her up from ballet, I got a lot of dirt then and a lot of information because they're awake. They're heightened. They're jazzed about something.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:18:41]:

Mhmm.

Jeanne Collins [00:18:41]:

I also made it a huge priority to eat dinner together every night that we could when she was home for dinner. And if you give that downtime where it's no phones, no TV, it's just us, you find, you know, that's when the chatty bubbles do bubble because they're not watching TV while we eat dinner. They're not on their phones. You know, at least I always had a rule. Like, we're not watching TV Yep. Unless it was

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:19:02]:

The same at our house. The

Jeanne Collins [00:19:03]:

Grammys or the Oscars or whatever, but no TV and no phones during dinner. And if you start that behavior they're used to, that's the time. And you make it so you are fully present. Like, don't be on your phone. Don't be on Instagram. You know?

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:19:16]:

You have

Jeanne Collins [00:19:17]:

to follow the same rules. You're there too.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:19:19]:

How do you do that, though, like, with clients? Because clients love to text. We all know this. It doesn't matter what sector you're in. They have a thought, and they text you. How have you managed to grow your firm while setting very healthy work, life balance boundaries?

Jeanne Collins [00:19:34]:

So a couple things. I mean, I do have as part of my contract. I don't always use it, but I have a supplemental document that goes out with my contract that does talk about delays. You know, just because you want it by Christmas doesn't mean that my vendor wants to get it to you by Christmas. So you can call and threaten all you want, but nothing's gonna happen if you do that. And I made it a little tongue in cheek, to make it a little belaffable, but also to be very realistic about, you know, if you text me excessively after 6 PM, that is not going to help you get anything done faster. You know? And so I made a little tongue in cheek, and I have it as a supplemental document for my contract. And I don't always include it.

Jeanne Collins [00:20:16]:

It depends on the size of the project. And, normally, I feel like you can get a gauge just from your initial interactions with people, how in touch they like to be. But I will send it to them, and I'll have them sign it. And in it, it does say, you know, I guarantee I will respond to your text within 24 hours if you text between the hours of, you know, 9 and 6. And I'll do my best to accommodate it even sooner. But I just lay those ground rules out, and very rarely do I have to actually remind people of that. I find silence reminds people of that. So if someone texts me at 9 o'clock at night and I don't respond until the next day at 11, that sends a pretty strong message.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:20:51]:

Yeah. Sometimes the loudest thing you can say is nothing at all.

Jeanne Collins [00:20:53]:

It's nothing.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:20:54]:

Absolutely nothing at

Jeanne Collins [00:20:55]:

all. Where if you jump, and I say this to my design friends, any small business entrepreneur, and even to my daughter, someone texts you, they don't need an immediate response.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:21:05]:

No. They'll call.

Jeanne Collins [00:21:05]:

The only one I'm going to maybe immediately respond to is my daughter, if it's important, by

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:21:09]:

the way.

Jeanne Collins [00:21:10]:

Not if it's like

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:21:11]:

Right.

Jeanne Collins [00:21:11]:

You know, what's for dinner or where's the you know?

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:21:13]:

You're going to get fed. You're fine.

Jeanne Collins [00:21:15]:

Yeah. Correct. But teaching you and sometimes you have to remind clients a little bit of that. You're not there to be their slave. So just because you've had this data dump of ideas at 11 o'clock at night does not mean I'm going to respond then or even right away in the morning either. And so I think when you don't do that, it conditions people. I also am very clear with my clients. Whenever I text or communicate with my clients, I always say good morning.

Jeanne Collins [00:21:41]:

Always.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:21:41]:

I love that.

Jeanne Collins [00:21:42]:

And I think I've seen another designer talk about this on Instagram. If a client text her and doesn't say good morning, her response will be good morning, And she'll just keep saying good morning until they get the idea. Like, if you want my attention

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:21:54]:

You're gonna say good morning.

Jeanne Collins [00:21:56]:

Let's start out with some pleasantries.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:21:58]:

Yeah. I love that.

Jeanne Collins [00:22:00]:

Let's just start out with some pleasantries, and I do it with all of my vendors. I don't expect every general contractor to respond with good morning. But you know what? It's amazing how people will change when they realize, like, good morning and thank you.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:22:12]:

Yeah. You know, it's so interesting. It comes up on almost every episode we do, the power of kindness and humility. It's just like becoming a mantra on every single episode, and it's like people need to be reminded, kindness and humility. You wouldn't expect your doctor when you would text it, unless it's an emergency, of course, at 11 o'clock at night, to immediately sit promptly up in bed, grab a notepad in their pajamas, and begin scribbling all the notes that you've just texted. But somehow, in our universe, it is. To your point, it's an education thing of educating the client, forward client management. I love that you have an addendum to your contract for forward client management.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:22:49]:

If, hey, I have a life too. I have a daughter. I love to talk about my kids with my clients even though we do commercial. In fact, I will put, as a gift, in our show notes, a picture of me with my oldest when she was a bitty bitty baby out on a commercial job. I got a vest

Jeanne Collins [00:23:05]:

Love it.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:23:05]:

Big enough. I've shocked the GC. This is looking back 10 years later, but I literally had her and her baby Bjorn with the safety vest over her. I was in a hard hat, and she was just happy as a clam could be. But I think it's important that people realize that it's actually one of her favorite pictures. We just revisited it the other day. She was like, mom, where's that picture of me when I went out on the job with you when I was, like, 3 months old? And I'm like, oh, it's right here. It's in my album marked favorites.

Jeanne Collins [00:23:31]:

Love it.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:23:31]:

Yeah. It makes it real to those GCs. It makes it real to those people. I wouldn't advise doing that again for security reasons insecurity reasons. I'm not recommending that. But it does make it real of, like, I have a life too, and I need people too that are dependent on me. So, feasibly, how did you scale? Because, you know, you come off this firing in 2020. Here you are in 24.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:23:51]:

You're in AD. What was that growth like, and how did you manage it to continue with, like, the pregnancy mom model without getting stretch marks as you went through this rapid growth period? How did you do it in a healthy, sustainable way that you feel most people in our business miss?

Jeanne Collins [00:24:09]:

A couple things. So I started my business right before I turned 50, and I was like, I don't have 10 years to build a brand. So less than a year in, I hired 2 things. 1 was a business coach, which we already talked about, and the second was a PR firm. And the PR firm was really about getting me local press and getting me recognition. And there would be times where people would say, I see you everywhere. I'd be like, that's so great because that's kind of what I want. Because where I live in a luxury design market, where I live in a small town with probably 30 interior designers here, recognition and getting referred by other people is really how you get your business.

Jeanne Collins [00:24:48]:

People don't necessarily Google search and stumble upon me. They do every once in a while, but not often. So, normally, it's referral. So it's like, okay. You need your name and your brand to get out there. So hiring a PR firm really helped me get my brand established and get projects published so that you then can go you know, I mean, honestly, one of the reasons that I think I made it onto the AD pro list is because I was a finalist for HGTV for designer of the year last year. And that happened because I had a project that was big enough that we were able to get a lot of press around and was a really beautiful, unique project. And so that helped me scale.

Jeanne Collins [00:25:27]:

The other thing is is that I hired before I was drowning.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:25:32]:

Oh, I love that nugget. Hire before you're drowning.

Jeanne Collins [00:25:36]:

Hire before you're drowning.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:25:37]:

Oh, takeaway nugget of the episode right there.

Jeanne Collins [00:25:39]:

Yeah. Because the other thing is, you know, with virtual assistants and with part time people who are looking to help, my assistant who I hired as my first, like, actual on payroll assistant, she only worked part time. And but that's okay. And it was I foresaw a need for someone to help me locally do a lot of things. And so one of the other piece of advice I give to people always ask me, how did you find her? And I actually went to a local community college that has a program in interior design and graphic design. And reached out to the head of that first day.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:26:25]:

Wow.

Jeanne Collins [00:26:26]:

And I knew the minute I saw her picture that I would hire her. So that's one of those yes moments. I knew the minute I saw her photo. And the minute I saw what she wrote to me, I was like, oh, I'm hiring you. I don't even need to interview you, but I'll interview you anyway.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:26:36]:

We'll do the protocol.

Jeanne Collins [00:26:38]:

We'll go through it. Right? Yeah. But I just sort of knew. And so I hired her and committed to pay her for a set number of hours even if I didn't use them. And I was, like, leaning in to the future growth. And same thing with my bookkeeper, same thing with my purchasing company. I leaned in, and at the time, it felt like it was a lot of money. But I also made sure when I ran my business, I paid myself.

Jeanne Collins [00:27:00]:

And so, you know, if you read Profit First, you know, it always tells you you should pay yourself. Even if your business isn't making money, pay yourself. If your business isn't making money, don't look at it like it's not making money because you paid yourself. It's not making money because either your p and l is off or your expenses are really high, but they could be high because they had to be because you had to invest in advertising for yourself. So it's a mindset shift around your value to the business. And if you don't pay yourself unless the business makes money, that can eat away at the mindset of the value that you're bringing to your overall business.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:27:33]:

Right back into the mindset, what are you worth and knowing your value and not being afraid to pay yourself that. You know, you bring up an interesting point too about reinvesting and paying for what you need to pay for. The general rule of thumb, at least when I finished my MBA, it was 30% goes back into marketing. Like you said, you're in a market where a lot of it comes from referrals as opposed to marketing direct. Looking back, what do you feel like were the marketing choices that you made that most benefited you in starting out to get you out there? Was it hiring that PR firm? Was that the ultimate game changer? Because we look at it. Right? We've got SEO, then we have paid ads, then we have all of the social media platforms and social media managers. And, like, there's a lot of opportunities. How do you sort through that? I'd love to hear that, especially with your ad in sales VP background.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:28:22]:

How did you pick what to use?

Jeanne Collins [00:28:25]:

So I chose my PR person. But before I chose my PR person, I hired a branding agency out in California to rebrand and to redevelop my website because I really felt like your website is a reflection of you in interior design, and it really is important. Yes. And it really is important when you wanna stand out in an area where there are lots of you. And so I also did a lot of work on, like, who's my target audience? You know? Because in the beginning, I was like I was like, I'll decide for anyone. You have money. I'll decide for you. It doesn't work.

Jeanne Collins [00:29:04]:

Like, back to business 101. They don't teach you this stuff in business school. Right? But, like, defining who my target audience was and then figuring out how to really speak to them with my website, I think, was really important. And then my PR person was the next thing in getting me visibility and getting me known locally with the local magazines, local events, getting my projects published because, honestly, like, people will be like, oh, you got a project published. Did that get you business? No. It's not a one to one relationship either Mm-mm. Which is also marketing 101. Just because you get something published in a magazine doesn't mean the phone rings the next day, and I thought it would.

Jeanne Collins [00:29:42]:

The first time I had a huge project published, it was September 1st. And I was like, it's gonna start ringing on September 5th, and nothing crickets. Nothing happened. Nothing. And I was like, oh my goodness. But it's a build. It's a build to getting brand recognition. So you have to be in it for the long game in terms of that.

Jeanne Collins [00:30:01]:

I love that. Yeah. It's a build. One of the things I did do with my PR person that I do think worked a lot is we designed a lot of little brochures and little postcards, and I would drop them off at places where I would go get my hair done Yeah. Places where I would go get my nails done or places where I thought my target audience might just be hanging out. Yep. And just asking them like, hey. Would you just put this out for, like, a week?

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:30:23]:

Yeah.

Jeanne Collins [00:30:24]:

Or I'd give them a copy of a magazine of an article that I, you know, just had published and tab the page and be like, you just put this here in your waiting room. I've done it with my book. So, you know, I just give them my book, and I leave my book. And over time, it does build.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:30:35]:

It does build. I think that's the key.

Jeanne Collins [00:30:37]:

You have to be okay to ask.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:30:39]:

You have to be okay to ask, and you have to be able to hang in there. Because if you see an economic downturn or maybe your business isn't right where you want it to be and you're like, we should pull back in marketing. I'm always like, that's the last place you should pull back. Abort that idea. That is the worst idea because all the tractors and momentum that you've been busy building, it's gonna come to fruition, but you just have to hang in there long enough for it to do so. It will happen, but patience is a virtue. And then once you get that synergy or the inertia, then it becomes really fun.

Jeanne Collins [00:31:08]:

It does. I say to people all the time, full transparency, I was like, this business is hard.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:31:14]:

It's so true.

Jeanne Collins [00:31:15]:

When I was in corporate America and they're like, you know, they wanna know what my pipeline is of work. And I'm like, sometimes you have no control over your pipeline of work. Sometimes you have no idea where your next big project is coming from. Yeah. So you have to be constantly marketing your business, constantly. You know, I do newsletters every single month. My business coach was like, every month, I don't care if you don't wanna do it or not. Every month, you need to get out there, out in front of builders, out in front of architects, out in front of past clients.

Jeanne Collins [00:31:44]:

They'll send it to friends. You have to stay top of mind. And so you have to constantly be doing all these things even when you're drowning in work because in 6 months, you might be like, oh, where is that pipeline again? You know? Or someone's like, oh, I lost my job. Or, oh, I had a huge project. And right before we were supposed to start, the guy got transferred, and they moved. I was like, wow. Oh. Okay.

Jeanne Collins [00:32:07]:

So happy for you.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:32:08]:

But wow. That just changed my landscape pretty significantly around here.

Jeanne Collins [00:32:12]:

Right. You're like, that changed the economics of what's going on in my business really quickly. And when you're smaller, those types of things have a much greater impact too.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:32:21]:

Well and I think you said such a great thing about top of mind and being top of mind. And I always joke that we acquire clients. We collect them. My goal is to collect clients and not lose them. And the way you do that is by staying top of mind, which only happens through consistent marketing that speaks to that target market and target audience. And if you don't know what that is, we'll put a link to the studio that has a beautiful workbook on how to discover your target market. Because we always say, if you're trying to be everything to everyone, you're nothing to no one because you can't do it. You just can't do it.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:32:53]:

So find your niche, bear down, get after it, and look at what you've been able to accomplish in 4 years. This is incredible. Jean, congratulations. I'm so impressed.

Jeanne Collins [00:33:03]:

Thank you.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:33:04]:

Well and it's a great story too of it can be done, and it doesn't take a long build to get there.

Jeanne Collins [00:33:10]:

Right.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:33:11]:

Intentionality, knowing where to hold them and where to fold them, where to spend the money, where to keep the money. It can lead to great things.

Jeanne Collins [00:33:17]:

It really can. And it's not that it's not without a lot of work and a lot of stress and a lot of heartache, and I write about that in my book too about the journey. But it can be done if you focus well and also recognize, you know, you might make some mistakes. That's okay. It's alright.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:33:32]:

Yes.

Jeanne Collins [00:33:32]:

Pat yourself on the back. It's okay. That's part of learning and growing, and just keep trying to learn and keep trying to ask questions and figure out how to get bigger and better. And so many people in our industry are so willing to help. I have been amazed by that. If you really just reach out and ask, so many other designers are willing to give advice and to give help and to give resources and connections and names. And that has been an amazing thing because corporate America isn't always like that.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:34:01]:

No. Be curious, be kind, and get after doing what you love. Such a good conversation, Jean. Thank you so much for your time. It means the world.

Jeanne Collins [00:34:08]:

Thank you, Katie Decker-Erickson. It's been so fun to speak with you.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:34:12]:

Welcome to today's Coaching Corner. So as you just heard, Jean ramped her firm up and is doing amazing things within 4 short years, and I tip my hat to Jean. If you are not going that fast, I wanna take this moment to say that is okay too. When I started my firm clear back in 2007, I didn't know if I was gonna get married. I had hoped to have kids. I didn't know what that journey was gonna look like. And so to be honest with you, it was a really slow and steady march with plenty of lessons learned along the way. Looking back, it made complete sense for me to take my time, spend my time with my kids.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:34:47]:

As I often joke, I was an old mom, and I wasn't even sure if I was gonna have them. So when they did come along, I wanted to be able to enjoy especially those little, little years when they need you. It was okay to wait and scale into where our firm is now, what we are doing, which as most of our regular followers know, it's pretty robust. But the kids are older, and that's okay as well. I just wanna give you that moment of encouragement to know that wherever you are in your journey, and I think Jane would agree with me, it doesn't matter if you're going fast or you're going slow. You have to do what's right for you right by your family and your kids and what works with them, and know that scaling is something you should be controlling as the driver of your business. It should not be controlling you. That's today's coaching corner.

Katie Decker-Erickson [00:35:34]:

And that's the closing bell. I hope you've gathered valuable insight from our conversation today, equipping you to thrive in your interior design business. Don't forget to hit that follow button to never miss an episode. And if you have burning questions or specific topics you're curious about, explore our episode library or better yet book a strategy session directly with me at colorworks.coach. Until next time, see you in the studio. It's our virtual community and the link is below.