Help your business grow faster, go further, and be more successful by using collaborations and technology tools! Creating a sustainable design firm starts with strategy. A strategy for networking, marketing, and client experience. But how can we best utilize things like AI design tools and professional organizations? Jenny Cano is with us today to discuss!

Jenny has had a front row seat for 8 years (thanks to her involvement with the IDS) to what actually works to grow a healthy interior design business. She’s sharing everything from effective collaborations, to embracing technology tools, to her favorite educational resources! If you're curious about how collaboration and technology can benefit your business, you will not want to miss this episode! Stick around for the Coaching Corner where I’m sharing my own insecurities around collaboration and competition. Enjoy the conversation!

In this episode, we cover:

• How Covid helped business owners see that collaboration over competition is possible

• How it helps your design firm grow to know when certain clients aren’t for you

• How AI is becoming a tool for interior designers and our clients

• How team culture impacts the use of technology in design firms

• How an organization like IDS can support you when you hit creative burnout
  

Has this conversation opened your eyes to what’s possible when you embrace collaborations and technology like AI? We’d love to hear from you—come say hi on LinkedIn!

More about Jenny Cano

Jenny is a nonprofit executive with nearly 15 years of experience leading organizations through periods of transition and growth. For the last 8 years, her work has been focused on the home furnishings industry. She is the executive director of the Interior Design Society, a 50 year old professional association serving residential interior designers. During her time at the Interior Design Society, she started a scholarship fund. She has also created a consumer facing initiative to educate consumers about interior design. And she has even doubled membership offerings!

Links and Mentioned Resources

The Studio

Coaching Strategy Session

WSJ: AI & Design article

Mydoma Studio

Fibery

Slack

Aesthetic Intelligence

Interior Design Society

Interior Designers Pricing & Project Estimation with Michelle Lynne Pant

Connect with Jenny Cano

Instagram

LinkedIn

This episode is brought to you by Nello Marelli

Struggling to stay ahead with the ever-evolving design trends while running your business? Discover the secret weapon of the design world - the 2025 Nel Colore Color Trend Book. Crafted by the renowned Italian designer Nello Morelli, whose expertise guides luxury brands from Milan to Paris, this tool is now stateside with our partnership. Get exclusive access to future color trends, combinations, and sociological insights up to two years in advance, ensuring your designs stand out. Elevate your projects and leave the trend-watching to us. Find the Nel Colore Color Trend Book, along with a mini version, exclusively in The Studio. 

Connect with Katie Decker-Erickson

Book Your Coaching Strategy Session with Katie!

Business Coaching for Interior Designers

LinkedIn

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More about Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design

As an interior designer, do you struggle with balancing your passion for creativity with the practical demands and hopes of running a successful business? Whether starting a new venture or scaling an existing firm, the complexities can be overwhelming. Welcome to “Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design,” a podcast designed to bridge the gap between creativity and entrepreneurship. 

This masterclass is hosted by the dynamic Katie Decker-Erickson, a seasoned expert with nearly 20 years of experience in interior design, a Master's degree in Business Administration, and creator and owner of a multimillion-dollar interior design firm. 

Each episode offers innovative and actionable business strategies, engaging conversations, and practical guidance to help you build and grow a successful design business. Tune in every other Friday on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms to ignite your creative spark and sharpen your entrepreneurial skills. (Topics and language are kid/family friendly.)

This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you. 

This episode of Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design is brought to you in partnership with Leah Bryant Co.

The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design follows

Katie (00:03.101)

Hey Jenny, welcome to the show.

Jenny Cano (00:05.121)

Hey, Katie, thank you so much for having me.

Katie (00:07.838)

We're so excited to have you here to talk all things collaboration, burnout, education. These are things that come up a lot for designers, I think, especially when you're operating in a silo. And so to be a part of a larger community like IDS, which you've been the director of, executive director is eight years we were just saying before we came on, right? I know.

Jenny Cano (00:15.745)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (00:27.009)

Yes. That's correct. Eight years.

Katie (00:31.039)

I don't know how you heard all of us crazy people. I was just telling Jenny, I'm like, I would never want your job in a million years. I don't know how you do it, but we're so impressed that you do and keep keep it moving forward in such a positive way. But over those eight years, you probably see a lot of changes as far as continuing ed and collaboration, because I feel like our industry historically has been very siloed. But now we're seeing collaboration over competition. And I keep hearing it.

Jenny Cano (00:33.889)

I'm out.

Thank you.

Jenny Cano (00:50.113)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (00:56.769)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (00:57.566)

I keep saying it, we need it as an industry. Can you speak into that space?

Jenny Cano (01:02.177)

Yeah, I think a lot has changed over the past few years. And I think COVID obviously had a huge impact on people's collaboration because we realized that we can really work with people all over the world. So I think that had a big impact on just the way that people see relationships and that it's not a competition thing. There's enough work for everyone. So I would say there's definitely been a shift in just that mindset that

Katie (01:15.838)

Yeah.

Jenny Cano (01:31.585)

you can have friends that are in the same industry and do the same thing as you. And you can share that information and it'll help everyone. So I think, yeah, there's definitely been a big change with that.

Katie (01:42.239)

How do you think that trickle down to the end users yet to our clients where they understand we're less about the competition and more about the collab?

Jenny Cano (01:50.753)

Mm, I don't know about that.

Katie (01:52.928)

I know, I feel like it's just delayed a little bit in getting in there, but I am seeing, you know what's interesting? The most successful designers that I'm seeing and that come on our show, they want the collab. They are not interested in the competition. I think there will always be that old school mentality of competition, but the ones that are killing it, like we're talking seven figure businesses showing up on our show, they're in it for the collaboration.

Jenny Cano (02:03.585)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (02:09.601)

Absolutely.

Jenny Cano (02:14.945)

Mm -hmm.

agreed and the same client isn't for everyone and people just need to yeah you just kind of have to accept that you know I mean everyone is so different they work differently they have different styles and it's just some people aren't cut out to work with some people you know it's just something we have to accept

Katie (02:21.696)

Great point. Talk about that. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Hmm.

Katie (02:37.056)

Hehehe

It's so true and that's like the beauty of aging too is just saying to a client. You're not a good fit I mean we had to tell a client that the other day and they had Microsoft money like That's a hard client to turn away But just to say like I'm so sorry This isn't gonna work like we're gonna save you from yourself because now we can see it coming because we've been in business for almost two decades, right? So like no, we love you. We wish you the best like thank you It's not worth it. And every time we try to talk myself into it. I'm like, why did I do it?

Jenny Cano (02:44.865)

Right.

Jenny Cano (02:58.145)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (03:02.881)

Yep, it's not worth it.

Katie (03:11.202)

I get so mad at myself.

Jenny Cano (03:12.001)

You see the dollar signs and they're hard to turn away sometimes.

Katie (03:15.587)

They're so hard to turn away. They're so hard. Let's talk about technology. How have you seen technology change in what we do? You kind of alluded to it with the idea that thanks to Zoom, we can work with people all over the world and Slack and my gosh, how many communications channels don't we have? But how else has it impacted our profession?

Jenny Cano (03:17.925)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (03:33.409)

Well, I think designers have started embracing technology a lot more over the past few years and they're realizing how much more efficient they can be when they use it. So I love to see it personally. I'm not a huge tech person myself, but just implementing just even simple things like calendar invites, it's a game changer.

Katie (03:51.65)

Yeah.

Katie (03:56.9)

Yes. Yes.

Jenny Cano (03:59.137)

And it's a snowball effect. Once you see one thing work, then you just get hooked on it and you can keep going and going. But I mean, I think it's necessary these days with how we work so quickly and people expect that immediate response and immediate results. I think technology is just, you gotta have it and embrace it.

Katie (04:16.996)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I totally agree. There was a brilliant article that we'll put in our show notes to the Wall Street Journal. It is paywalled. But it was talking about AI and design and how it's changing things so dramatically. It used to be that we looked at a client's Pinterest board to get a general idea. Now clients are going in and creating their own models and AI and saying, this is what I want my house to look like. How do I do that? And it's really

Jenny Cano (04:33.697)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (04:42.241)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (04:44.197)

It was an incredible article. It doesn't replace the designer. There's still the tangible touch. There's still the project management. So what would you say to the designers that hear that out there and start getting melty about the future of our profession?

Jenny Cano (04:48.161)

No.

Jenny Cano (04:57.441)

I mean, I think it's a good thing. I think you can learn a lot from it and use it to your advantage. Don't think of it as a negative thing. You know, you've got to just take it for what it is and use it when you can. I think AI is so cool. I love it. And, you know, I follow Jenna Godusak a lot. And just to see what she does with it, it's so cool. I mean, it's, yeah, it's a game changer.

Katie (05:00.325)

I do too, yes, yes.

Katie (05:18.854)

Yes. Yes. Love her.

Yeah.

It's such a game changer. We use it all the time. We are using it on the daily in our business. And I want to say like, if you're afraid of it, sometimes you've got to hug the porcupine. Like don't let it scare you away, like fully embrace it and then decide if and how it does fit into your business model. But you'll be standing in the closet of fear doesn't get you out the door either.

Jenny Cano (05:30.977)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (05:36.001)

Right.

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (05:44.706)

Right. And use it as a starting point. That's what I do. Like, specifically with things like chat GPT. It's just, it's another brain to use, you know? Just use it as a starting point.

Katie (05:50.758)

Yep.

Katie (05:56.651)

Totally I you know, it's so funny you should say that because I was witness to a car accident about three months ago and it was it was not a good accident the woman who was Driving too fast was pregnant. It was like this whole entire thing They needed a witness statement and I'm like I just literally did a brain dump into chat GPT and said turn this into a letter like create a letter based on these facts

Jenny Cano (06:02.689)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (06:17.953)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (06:19.241)

And it was so good, Jenny. It was so amazing because I could have spent two or three hours typing up that letter that was going to be used in a court case. But I put it in chat GPT fact checked it. It's an 80 20. I feel like 80 percent of it.

Jenny Cano (06:22.241)

Mm -hmm.

Right.

Jenny Cano (06:31.649)

Mm -hmm. Agreed.

Katie (06:31.658)

It gets you there 80 % of the way, right? And then I spent about 15 minutes editing it, and it was done, and it was good. And the woman thanked me so profusely. And I was like, sister, I mean, thank you for your thank you, but I don't want you to think I slaved away over this either. I have other things to do with my time. What other tools are you seeing besides AI that you feel like are really changing the landscape for us?

Jenny Cano (06:38.305)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (06:46.945)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (06:56.161)

One thing that I've noticed over the past few years is people really embracing project management software. So I think that they don't have all of these different tools that they're using, they're putting it in one place. We have some partnerships with some of those software companies. The CEO of MyDemos Studio is on our board of directors and just how simple it can make your work from a business standpoint.

Katie (07:01.643)

Yes.

Katie (07:17.546)

Yep.

Jenny Cano (07:23.521)

It's really cool to see people using that because it's saving them a lot of time.

Katie (07:28.045)

a lot of time and I think what's always interesting in the forums that I noticed is everyone is like, I want one software that does everything. And I'm like, hard, hard to do. Like, love, love that there's these softwares out here and you're right, they're good and they're getting better and it's so cool to see. But also, there's never gonna be a one size fits all, just like your firm is unlike anybody else's firm, right? And I think sometimes we have this expectation of that and then we get frustrated and we walk away. But like,

Jenny Cano (07:38.049)

Yeah.

Jenny Cano (07:42.913)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (07:48.929)

Right. Mm -hmm.

Katie (07:57.133)

If you're using 20 different softwares, we probably should talk because there's a mydoma or something else in your future that can simplify your life in a very significant way. Even cloud, just so much cloud computing, putting files on the cloud. Game changer.

Jenny Cano (07:57.249)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (08:02.017)

Right. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (08:10.081)

yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah, and I know a lot of people that are using things like Asana too. I haven't hopped on that bandwagon yet, but in Slack, I think those are great tools that people are using. Mm -hmm.

Katie (08:20.365)

Yeah.

we would die without slack. We were in a sauna.

and loved Asana, and then they burned us multiple times by rearranging our boards and whatever. So we opted out of Asana, and now we have our own. In fact, we'll put a link to it in the show notes called Fibre, which is an incredible software that we've customized for design. That's amazing. But if it's a code red, you're going to find us in Slack. Like if one of our teammates is blowing us up in Slack, there's a reason why. Do you guys use Slack too?

Jenny Cano (08:34.529)

Jenny Cano (08:41.057)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (08:45.889)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (08:51.617)

Right.

Jenny Cano (08:56.065)

So I use it externally with some of the people that we work with, but our team does not use it yet, and I think we should. I think we're missing out, yeah.

Katie (08:57.998)

Okay.

Yeah.

I so think you should. It was so funny. My husband walked by my office the other day, and he looked at me and he's like, what's that meme you're sending to your people on Slack? I'm like, yeah, I do a meme whenever time sheets are due. We throw up the best, coolest meme of like, today's time sheet day. Do you want to get paid? And whatever it is, but it's just a fun way to remind everybody, get in your time sheets. We got to go, you know? But it's just fun for stuff like that.

Jenny Cano (09:17.601)

Yeah.

Jenny Cano (09:25.217)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, I love that. Yep.

Katie (09:32.208)

It could be fun to see how that would play out in your organization. I think, how much does culture impact the use of technology in the design firms you're seeing?

Jenny Cano (09:36.673)

Yeah.

Jenny Cano (09:43.457)

I think a lot. I mean, I think if you have someone leading your organization that is resistant to it, I think it makes it really challenging. And then, you know, you've got the people that are really gung -ho about it and it just seems way more efficient. And, you know, I think it's important for people to stay on top of it just a little bit. You know, you don't have to be a tech expert, but if you're ignoring it completely, you're going to get left in the dust.

Katie (10:03.12)

Agreed.

Agreed.

Jenny Cano (10:12.865)

I think a lot of what we see is people that just completely think it's unnecessary and it's not.

Katie (10:18.739)

Not only is it unnecessary, but it's going to eventually play out to your clients and your revenue generation because your clients are going to expect things to happen faster because they have experience with technology. They think things can move faster. It won't happen right away. But eventually, when you don't have all those processes in place that are being run by the software that's working behind the scenes so you can spend more time on design and even using AI design tools like.

Jenny Cano (10:25.025)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (10:29.729)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (10:42.483)

When you see some of the power of some of these AI design tools, it's like you should be harnessing that power because it will save you time. It gets your clients a result quicker, less expensive, and then you can take on more clients, which I think is still a win instead of a threat. Right. How do you get over that fear? I mean, because I think there is a big portion of the industry that is afraid of technology. What would you say to those people? They're like, yeah, I hear you, Jenny, but.

Jenny Cano (10:49.697)

Yeah.

Jenny Cano (10:54.241)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (10:58.049)

Right.

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (11:12.129)

I think you just have to kind of put your big girl pants on and do it. I mean, it's 2024, you know? And if you're working with people that are millennials, for example, they've been on technology their whole lives. You have to do it.

Katie (11:16.978)

love that.

Katie (11:22.642)

preach.

Katie (11:27.956)

Yeah, their whole lives. Yep. Yep.

You have to do it. And find a place that you feel comfortable doing it. So whether it's joining a Facebook group about whatever it is that you're interested in, or just even a designer group and saying, hey, join IDS and then go collaborate with these people and see what they're using in their firms. I think that's a nice entry point, or as I like to call it, an easy on -ramp. If you're like, I don't know where to go with technology. What should I do? Come to IDS. We'll walk you through it. Yep.

Jenny Cano (11:40.929)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (11:45.953)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (11:58.017)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (12:02.689)

Right, start slow. You don't have to know it all day one. There's so much to learn and it's always changing. You just gotta have a pulse on it.

Katie (12:08.915)

you don't.

Katie (12:14.259)

That's a great way to put it. What sort of tools does IDS offer for someone in that space?

Jenny Cano (12:20.993)

Yeah, so I think besides just the collaboration and having connections with people all over really the world now, we provide a lot of educational tools just to expose people to new ideas and new resources. I mean, we have our local chapters that are spread throughout the U .S. We have 22 and growing. And then we also have our virtual chapter where we do webinars twice a month, at least. I know

Katie (12:41.396)

That's awesome.

Jenny Cano (12:50.305)

you're gonna do one for us coming up soon. So, you know, it's an hour out of your day. You know, if you can just learn one little piece of information to incorporate into your business, it's worth it. So, I mean, I think the educational component to the organization is really great. And, you know, it's design topics, it's business topics, technology, social media, marketing, whatever you want. That's what we provide for our membership.

Katie (12:51.989)

So excited about that. Yeah.

Katie (13:17.399)

I've been blown away because the breadth and depth is really fabulous. There's some nitty gritty areas of design that you get into all the way down to the techie portion of it. I'm thinking of the gentleman who was on not that long ago, and he had that really cool software that was, it's going to come back to me.

Jenny Cano (13:26.145)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (13:36.342)

It was so spiffy, but there's all sorts of different people that show up in this space. And sometimes we just need, I feel like as a designer, I just need someone to pull me away from my machine because I'm knee deep in a project or a management issue or something. And I'm just like, yeah, we create pretty spaces, don't we? Huh, that's interesting. Show me more about that, Jenny. And I love that you have virtual chapters. The virtual chapter has been incredible.

Jenny Cano (13:41.889)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (13:49.665)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (13:56.449)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (14:00.417)

Mm hmm. Yeah, it's it's been a good tool for us. And, you know, we've been doing that actually before COVID. So it's, you know, it's something that people have really embraced. And if you can't come to it when it's live, the recordings are there for all of our members. So we've got this huge bank of resources that you can if you want to watch it at 2 a you can. They just live on our website, which is great.

Katie (14:05.685)

Yeah, that's great.

Katie (14:21.143)

which I love. Yep. If there's any other insomniacs out there, come join me. We can watch the videos.

Jenny Cano (14:30.017)

I have learned a lot about you designers. And y 'all like to work? Yeah. A lot of y 'all are night owls. It's really interesting. We always laugh when it's time for our Designer of the Year award submissions to come in because it's like 2 and 3 a When it closes at 5 a It's really funny to see all of them rolling in at the last minute at night. Yeah.

Katie (14:32.694)

We're special breed, Jenny.

Katie (14:37.654)

Yeah, there are a lot of night owls.

Katie (14:53.817)

It's so it at night. Yeah, it's totally at night. My team. Yeah, yeah, that's true. No, our team will do that. I've gotten too old for that. I go to sleep, but then I wake up at 2 AM and think of all the things and then have to clock my two to three power hour, as I lovingly call it. And then I can go back to sleep, but it all has to get poured out. It's real. It's so real. Yeah, it's funny how the creative brain works and what triggers it and when it triggers it. And sometimes I'm just like, heaven help. Just please stop already.

Jenny Cano (14:58.337)

or early morning, I guess.

Jenny Cano (15:07.777)

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Yep, I get those sometimes. Yeah.

Jenny Cano (15:21.153)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (15:23.832)

I just went and saw Inside Out 2 with my kids this last weekend. It was great. And they're like, I think we finally have Riley, who's the main character, and all her little emotions are talking in her head. And they're all like, I think we finally have her to sleep. I think we finally have her to sleep. And sometimes I think as designers, all our little creative feelings and thoughts, it takes a minute. It takes a minute to get there, for sure. Speaking of feelings and thoughts, what do you say to the designers that are saying, Jenny, I'm just so burnt out?

Jenny Cano (15:26.049)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (15:30.017)

Okay.

Jenny Cano (15:40.313)

my gosh.

Jenny Cano (15:47.201)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (15:53.115)

I am burnt out and I am fried. What is the value of joining an organization like IDS when I really don't feel like I have anything to contribute? At this point, I need my cup filled up.

Jenny Cano (15:59.393)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (16:05.441)

I think when you join some sort of professional organization, it can inspire you and recharge you. Just being around like -minded people, they're like -minded but they are doing things in a different way. They're working with different clients. I think it can just really give you the energy that you need to sustain and just constantly getting feedback from other people or recommendations. I think it's just...

It's just good to have other people around that you can bounce ideas off of. And I think that really helps a lot of people with burnout.

Katie (16:40.602)

I so agree. Creativity does not happen in isolation. It just doesn't. I mean, for a short spurt, but it's not sustainable. And if we're looking at, yeah.

Jenny Cano (16:47.617)

right?

Jenny Cano (16:52.769)

Mm -hmm. And I think for us, you know, we've started doing the educational travel trips. So we typically do one that's international per year. So we've done Paris, Venice, we did Morocco in February, just to give you guys a way to explore the world really with people that are like you and in the same business. And it's

Katie (16:59.162)

fill me in.

Katie (17:08.477)

Nice. Nice.

Jenny Cano (17:21.921)

design focused. So you know we're going to tile factories and upholstery shops in Europe and in Africa and it's really just a way to recharge so I think that helps too.

Katie (17:27.388)

Wow.

Katie (17:34.908)

That's huge. That's unbelievably huge. Well, especially Morocco. Talk about sensory overload.

Jenny Cano (17:38.881)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (17:43.457)

I know, I didn't get to go on that trip. Unfortunately, I'm kicking myself for it. But yeah, that's a great place. I know we need to do another one. Yes.

Katie (17:47.421)

Well, neither did I. Can we just reschedule it? Can we do route two? I don't know. I'm reading this really great book right now called Aesthetic Intelligence. And we'll put that in the show notes, too. It's just talking about how everything we experience through design comes in through those five senses. And I can't think of a better place than like a Morocco or a Paris, where you get to absorb literally sight, touch, taste, scent. I mean, like all of it.

Jenny Cano (18:01.889)

Mm -hmm.

Jenny Cano (18:08.577)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (18:15.518)

through I mean what an experience that is to recharge every part of who you are. Can you say where we're going next year?

Jenny Cano (18:18.177)

Mm -hmm.

Katie (18:24.125)

TBD.

Jenny Cano (18:24.833)

We don't know yet. I think it might be Italy focused, but not sure. So we'll see.

Katie (18:29.149)

you have to go see our friend Nello who chooses all the fabrics and colors for Versace.

I wonder, we're going to have to talk about that because that would be incredible. Lives on, yeah, he lives on one of the lakes. He's an incredible man and has chosen for 20 years. In fact, that's where we have his color guide, the one that projects two years into the future, where his American distributor for that guide. It's on our website, which we'll add a link to. But yes, we would, that would be a fun connection.

Jenny Cano (18:37.281)

oooo

That would be amazing. That would be really cool.

Jenny Cano (18:54.017)

Mm -hmm.

that's amazing.

Katie (19:00.799)

We have to talk about that because Nella would love I mean, can you yeah, he was showing me the fabrics that he's choosing two years out about a month ago for Versace and let me just tell you they will blow you away because one is Versace but yeah, two it's it's him and he's choosing it and traveling and

Jenny Cano (19:01.697)

Yeah, we need to talk about that.

Jenny Cano (19:14.881)

That's so cool.

Katie (19:19.553)

Those things, but those cross pond, as I like to call them, cross pond relationships, though, that's so, what have you seen in the designers who attend or go on a trip like that or get involved even in their local chapter or even the virtual chapter? What do you notice in those designers? Because you've had a front seat row to that for a few years now.

Jenny Cano (19:38.753)

Mm -hmm. I think they have a lot more creative freedom. I think they're willing to expand the horizons when it comes to their design projects, which is really cool. I see a lot of them actually that are taking advantage of those opportunities, win more awards, which is really interesting.

Katie (19:42.656)

Mmm.

Katie (19:59.008)

yeah, they've got a whole new set of tools in their toolkit.

Jenny Cano (20:04.737)

Yes, not only just with the design aspect, but also with how to run their businesses. What you guys are doing, they do so much. It's not just the design part. You know, you've got to be efficient in your operations. So I think they're learning ways to do that better, which is giving them more creative freedom.

Katie (20:23.267)

I love every part of that. Jenny, such a good conversation. What are we missing when it comes to the idea of technology, collaboration, and finding other like -minded people doing what you're doing and not feeling competitive about it?

Jenny Cano (20:41.057)

What are we missing? That's a really good question. I mean, I think you just, I think what you were saying earlier, you've got to get the idea out of your head that it's a competitor and you have to understand that there's enough work and enough clients for everyone and that not everyone wants the same designer and that not everyone wants the same client.

Katie (21:00.132)

Will said, as our dear friend Michelle Lynn always says, there's enough ugly houses for everybody. Right? I just love that statement, because I'm like, it just puts it all in perspective. There's enough ugly houses for everybody. Jenny, such a good conversation. Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

Jenny Cano (21:08.449)

Yes, so true. That's funny.

Jenny Cano (21:18.913)

Yeah.

Katie (21:21.444)

We're glad to have you.

Jenny Cano (21:22.081)

Sure, I'm glad I could be here.

Yeah.