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Color Trends 2024
Have you ever heard humans are houseplants with emotions? It’s so true! And color trends for 2024 only add to this conversation.
When Susan Wadden speaks, we listen because she knows all about color! Sue started with Sherwin-Williams right out of college. Since then her role in the world of color and color trends has only grown. Today Sue joins me to chat about color trends for 2024 and specifically how they’re going to impact designers. Grab a cup of tea and press play!
In this episode, we cover:
Color trends for 2024
The big shift happening in color in 2024
What’s happening with neutrals
Themes to look for in design in 2024
Trends in exteriors and building and construction
Color palette breakdown for 2024
The new color families
The impact these color trends will have on design for the rest of the decade
How one color can be applied to different design styles
What designers need to know about specifying color and designing
What to look for in evidence-based design
Color trend presentation and the health, safety, wellness connection
How client education is going to look different in 2024
The new value-add for the clients in hiring a designer
A mini deep-dive into ontological design
Sue’s wise words to any moms out there balancing life and work
The new color Sue already has on her walls
What are you most excited for with the color trends of 2024? Come say hi and share your thoughts on Instagram!
More About Susan Wadden, Director of Color Marketing, The Americas Group
Sue is a color expert for The Americas Group, responsible for the company’s overall philosophy of color leadership and overseeing world color trend forecasting.
She began her career at Sherwin-Williams in 1998 as an interior designer and color marketing specialist. With a bachelor of arts degree in interior design from the Cleveland Institute of Art, Sue is active in the Color Marketing Group, the Color Association of the United States, the Inter-Society Color Council, the American Society of Interior Design, and the Interior Design Society.
Links and Mentioned Resources
Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rhys
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More about Colorful Conversations with Katie
Welcome to “Colorful Conversations with Katie”! Join us for a vibrant webcast where we seamlessly blend the realms of design and business in a fun and professional setting. Available on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms!
Hosted by the dynamic Katie, a seasoned expert with nearly 20 years of experience in both fields, this engaging series promises to ignite your creative spark and sharpen your entrepreneurial acumen. From exploring the latest design trends to uncovering strategies for building successful ventures, we dive deep into the colorful world where aesthetics meet profitability.
Whether you’re a budding designer or a savvy entrepreneur, this webcast is your go-to source for inspiration, insights, and a dash of lively conversation. Tune in and let your imagination, business and life take flight!
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The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Colorful Conversations with Katie podcast follows
Katie Decker-Erickson
Welcome to colorful conversations with Katie from exploring the latest trends to uncovering strategies for building successful ventures. We are going to dive deep into the colorful world where aesthetics meet profitability all while balancing work with life. You know it, whether you're a budding designer or savvy entrepreneur, this webcast is your go -to source for inspiration insights and a hopefully dash of lively conversation.
Today's guest is Sue Wadden. She is a color expert for the America's group. and is responsible for the company's overall philosophy of color leadership and overseeing world color trend forecasting, which is a huge event, which is why we're so excited to have her. She began her career at Sherwin -Williams in 1998 as an interior designer and color marketing specialist. And with a bachelor of arts degree in interior design from the Cleveland Institute of Art, Sue is active in the color marketing group, the Color Association of the United States, Inter -Society Color Council, I didn't know there were so many colors. The American Society of Interior Design and the Interior Design Society, not to be confused. So with that, without further ado, welcome Sue, we're so glad to have you here.
Sue Wadden
Hi Katie, that is quite a mouthful. I appreciate that awesome intro, thank you.
Katie Decker-Erickson
You're so welcome. I'm so glad I had a second cup of tea today.
Sue Wadden
And a Friday to know us.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Right? So we're so excited. Of course. If anyone, if you've been around our industry for any length of time, you know, Sue, you know that she is all things for color for Sherwin Williams and the America's group. And when Sue speaks, we listen because the woman knows all about color. So what are we seeing? I know we've kind of done all the colors for 2023. Do we have any idea yet what 2024 is shaping up to look like it from a culture?
Sue Wadden
We do. We do. So we just, at this recording time, we are just about to launch our 2024. So the beginning of August, we're ready to reveal our. you know, our direction for 24. And I think what you're gonna see is a little bit of a shift in sort of the insights in color, particularly from us. I've got a little fatigue from telling kind of the stories that we've all heard. Hybrid living, nature inspired, like we have all heard all of those themes coming out of the pandemic that we're kind of in this shared experience timing. So the stories haven't changed a ton. And so our direction is gonna be more focused on color families. I really wanna like dig deep into what's actually happening with the trends within a color family. So if I talk about colors warming up, what does that really mean? Like, are we revealing that specifically with hues? And we're not gonna talk about neutrals for the first time in, I don't know, my career maybe. I'm taking a break from neutrals because we've spent like the last decade has just been so predominant. with neutrals.
Katie Decker-Erickson
More than the last decade. And to me, neutrals feel like they go back to the 08 recession when all the grays came on board. And so I feel like we've been like a 15 year abyss of neutrals.
Sue Wadden
It is. And it's, it's exhausting. Like I'm just done with it. I need a break. I think people need inspiration. They need like, you know, visual eye candy and stimulus. And I know consumers, they don't even know what they're looking for. There's so much confusion and Instagram is changing the game with all these like, you know, things that photograph well on Instagram usually are white and light, right? They're not always deep, dramatic color. So it's really, it's made our industry a little, it's turned its head a little bit, which I think is a fun thing to talk about. So maybe we can dig into that a little bit.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Yeah, I would love to go down that road. So what are you seeing? I mean, there was an interesting article in the New York Times last week about how the farmhouse style is never going away. It's like, here to stay with black roofs and white board mat and I, like in this industry, it was funny. We were talking as a team and our whole team is like, we haven't done farmhouse in years. And like we're over farmhouse, it's been five years since we specified farmhouse. So just kind of running with that idea, like what are you seeing that you think is going to pop? Cause there is confusion, you're right, there's total confusion.
Sue Wadden
Well, so you know, it goes like it starts at the coast and moves into the middle. So, you know, Midwest is still very farmhouse, it's very relatable. It's...The styling is a little more contemporary than it's ever been, which I think is a nice change, but it's accessible. So people that are uncertain of like pushing the norms, they rely on like a farmhouse style to like feel really good. Whereas on the coast, it's much more modernist. We're definitely seeing modernism come in and like mainstreaming like for the average American, like who would never have looked at something very contemporary. There is a huge emphasis on that in exteriors and sort of home building and construction. So I think that's really interesting. And again, it's that austerity, it's that hyper contrast, that black and white thing, right? There's no gray, right? That's not something in the middle. So we're seeing these extremes, very angular approach. And that's gonna be interesting to watch. Even like...in regions that you wouldn't see those colors like Florida or Texas where the heat is really a factor. Seeing an all -black house or dark charcoal is not, that's not typical. So it's really an interesting sort of pivot that we've seen in the last five years, really post -pandemic.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Which is lovely to be able to see. And are we starting to see more of an embrace of pops of color? Like I'm talking. No. vivid colors, because I feel like that's just being roped in. I mean, we kind of dabbled in it with the musters, but now it's like the fuchsias, nobody blinks that. And it's really refreshing to be able to see some images coming out of color.
Sue Wadden
And again, it doesn't have to be all over in a room, you know, the cliche of the accent wall or front door, but seeing a vivid red, a beautiful blue, a turquoise, like some sort of jewel tone is just such a nice change from where we've been. I think what we are definitely gonna continue to see is like those deep dark colors. So maybe bold red is not your thing, but you could go with almost like a maroon or a cordovan or a deep plum color and get that chromacity, get that depth of color, but still have it be sort of easy to live with. And I find those colors to be amazing. They're really beautiful. I'm in the Midwest, I'm in Cleveland, Ohio. So we have long winters. So sometimes bright colors here with the light that we get, they just look out of place. So I tend to live in sort of a deeper, darker state when I choose color here. And we're seeing that as like a prevailing trend that we're going to definitely talk about it in 24.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Tell me about how you're shifting your color presentation for 24 to deviating from those, you know, standard, the nature palette, the,
Sue Wadden
yes, the, the energy palette, the, the, the cracked and palette, you know, we, we had like a formula kind of.
Katie Decker-Erickson
It sounds like it's a pretty new rollout. Like you've just kind of revisited the entire way you're telling the color story.
Sue Wadden
It is like there's still four stories. And so I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna break it a little bit on this podcast. Okay. We're gonna talk about, we're gonna talk about lights and whites and delicate hues. We're gonna talk about deep tones. I'm gonna talk about blues and greens as a color family, cause there's been this convergence really. I mean, they are some, it's really emblematic of what this decade is gonna be. for color started off heavy with greens and now we're shifting into blues that are gonna be really important. Again, blues never are really, they never go out. And then we're gonna talk about pinks and purples and warm tones, browns. So like kind of startling, like the amount of colors, I've got 48 colors in the palette and they're all broken down by color family. But the, it's just, I'm so excited for it. Cause it's such a departure from where we've been. It's like, how can one color be applied to several different design styles? So say there's an indigo blue, you can see this in contemporary, you can see it in very traditional homes. And so it kind of, it's just about pure color versus design style, which is refreshing. So yeah, I'm excited. I would love to check back in with you and tell you more. We're launching in about a week and a half. So give me a little bit.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Yeah, exactly. So if I'm a designer and I'm hearing of this rollout, how is this going to change how I integrate? You alluded to it a little bit, but how it transposes across different styles. What do I need to know about this new rollout and how it's going to affect how I'm going about specifying color in designing?
Sue Wadden
So one thing that's very important, I think to designers now moving forward, it's not just about specifying a color. It's about really evidence -based design and how we apply it in a space. So we have a whole thread in our, in our, presentation, we do a big trend presentation, that's about health, safety and wellness. So I've taken every color of family and applied a health, safety, wellness principle to each of those families. So like what you should consider an interior is when you select whites and why that's good for humans and the, you know, the human condition and interior. Same with red, same with blue, you know, purple, same with all of them, all of the color families. And I think it's really going to be a tool. You know, we don't think about color. as powerful as color can be. I don't want it to just sit in the background. It can be really a deciding factor in a space. And that's what we wanted to build into this presentation. So that's the biggest difference. It's great.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I think it's going to be incredible. And it ties back into ontological design and that spaces, we don't just design spaces, spaces design us. And we talk about that all the time.
Sue Wadden
Exactly.
Katie Decker-Erickson
So how is this space and arguably the largest component of the design is the color on the walls. And of course the fifth wall being the ceiling. Like, How is that affecting and creating a feeling or a healing or whatever is going on?
Sue Wadden
Whatever's going on, whatever you need.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Yeah. I love that expression, humans are houseplants with emotions.
Sue Wadden
Exactly.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Right. We really are. We need light. We interact with things. We need nurturing. All of that. I think all of that. We don't like to necessarily think about that, but when you start designing in a way that actually considers that human component, it changes everything.
Sue Wadden
It does. And again, we haven't talked in that in like the language of design. I don't know that our clients are thinking about color that way. And I think this is an opportunity to educate as well. So designers know inherently that these are important principles. This is about like kind of spreading the word on why people, clients really need to consider this in their homes as well.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I love that because it also puts the designer in a more reputable position and it's a value add for the client to say, I didn't just choose this color because it's beautiful. I chose this color because of X, Y, and Z reasons related to color theory and how you're going to interact with this color, how this color is going to interact with you. And we create this, this loop of ontological.
Sue Wadden
Exactly. Exactly. Perfect. I haven't heard that expression ontological design. I'm going to take that in my notes.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Oh, it is the best. Yeah. There is a whole field of study emerging on this on how design impacts us, but we impact design. So when you walk in a space that feeling you get, when you walk away from that space, how does that change how you go through the rest of your day? How you think creatively about something? There, one story I love to share is my husband, he would die if I shared this story, by the way. But I'm gonna share it.
Sue Wadden
We won't share this one with anybody.
Katie Decker-Erickson
We've never shared it on the podcast before, but today's the first. We were actually visiting the Phoenix Art Museum a couple of years ago. I wanna say it was last year. And there's this incredible artist and she uses light. in a very unique way. And you walk into a dark room and it's all mirrors and little pieces of led lights hanging down and you can walk through and you feel them brushing on you and you have no sense of space. It's like standing in the universe. And he came out of it and he was crying and he said, I don't know what just happened in there, but I am not like sure what just happened. It was very unsettling and it created like the most, and he is a type A works with engineers, first born, not a touchy feely guy. And so to see him come out of that and be impacted by that in that way, that for me was the moment that captured that is what ontological design is about. And we still talk about it. In fact, my kids still tease him. They call it Starry Nights, which is not the proper name of the piece, but they will say, remember when daddy came out of Starry Nights and was crossed? It's like a moment that they very much remember because it impacted him. So intense.
Sue Wadden
So much. That's great.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Yeah. Which I think, and I think we're going to start, um, there's other brands, is it OXO or OXO, depending on how you say it, but the whole idea that like how we interact with our environment is key. Some of the tools they've created for kitchens are fabulous. And you're like, why did anybody think to do that before?
Sue Wadden
Right.
Katie Decker-Erickson
And it's just the idea that like a human wants to have a better experience using that tool, sitting on that sofa, being in that space. And so how do we start designing with that at the forefront? rather than saying, I just want to create something beautiful. We're creating a beautiful feeling instead that then informs how that person goes out into the world and what they create and what they do and how they live.
Sue Wadden
Love it. Love it. Love it. Well, thank you. Yes. Thank you for that introduction to that term. Again, I think like designers, like we know this, this is inherent already in what we do, but having a framework around it is really important.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Well, and it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing is you're of course, because you're Sue, but you're already light years ahead of this and that you're incorporating that human element into the whole new way you're directing color at Sherwin, which I think is beautiful because it is the most important element.
Sue Wadden
Yeah. Yes. I agree.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Element. I want to talk a little bit, going back to the start of your career, because one thing we always talk about is, um, family and balancing life and balancing your business and how do you do all this? And you've had an incredible career at Sherwin that has spanned decades, which is why it's such a treat and privilege to sit with you. So I so appreciate your time and joining us. You know, in thinking through that and building a family and doing what you did and the lessons learned along the way, the most probably simple way to put it is how did you do it? So like, how did you do it to the moms who are out there saying, I want, I want to do what I love and I want to create, but my gosh, I have kids and family or I have. other challenges in life, or maybe I don't have kids, but I'm just trying to figure this out. Walk us through your journey a little bit.
Sue Wadden
So I, we have two kids. Um, and Sherwin has been my home since internship and college days. So everything in my life has been, has happened while I've been at Sherwin Williams, met my husband, got married, had kids, uh, aging parents. I just lost my, my dad this, this fall, right? Like, You know, it's not always even just about kids and family. It's about how our parents age. That's, that's you're rolling it. If you're in your mid forties, you're maybe experiencing a little bit of that. You know, that's a challenge I didn't anticipate. Um, so I think the most important thing has been this career to keep me grounded. Like I think when the kids are young, yeah, the first 10 years I used, I have this anecdote that I always say, it was just making sure they stayed alive. Right. Like, Oh God, am I doing this? Yes. Right. And then the second half right now that they're in their teenage years, they're thriving and doing great. And I now am so happy that I stuck with the difficult years of trying to balance work and career so that I can focus again on my career. Like I can't wait to spend time more working. I know that sounds nuts, but you, you know, and I don't know if you feel this way, but when they're little, you're like half at work, half at home. And you've like, I didn't feel like I was doing anything great during those years. And I was, and I don't know that anybody ever noticed that, but I felt like I wasn't able to give my 100 % self anywhere. And then now it's changing and shifting that they're a little more autonomous and, you know, growing up so much and that I can really focus on, on what I want to do and expand my career. And I don't know, write a book on color. Like, I don't even know what that thing is going to be, but I want, I can't wait for that chapter, but without having the balance of, um, my creative juices going to something that was outside of my home was really, really important. So I know it's a struggle. It's really hard to work and be a working mom and also have a creative career, but it's worth it in the long run. I just say, you know, like stick with it, keep going. Even when the days are hard and you just want to cry and sleep and, and now it's like a mental health day. Yeah. It's like stick with it because it's worth it in the long run.
Katie Decker-Erickson
No, it's interesting. You should say that because one thing, when I had my first daughter, the one question I don't think a man would typically get was, are you going to continue designing after you have your kid? And I'm like, of course I'm going to continue designing. And this is what I love to do. It kind of took me back. And then as I grew my mommy wings, as I call them, I kind of figured out how to mom, I always say I'm a better designer because I'm a mom. I'm a better mom. I feel like they actually work really well together and they inform each other. And I am a happier camper. when I get to do both.
Sue Wadden
Yes, I 100 % agree with that. You know what's interesting now too with older kids is they're super proud of having a working mom, which is, I did not expect that, that like my son, if I have a 15 year old son who's like into video games and not design, and he had mentioned something in passing like, well, of course mom, like it's cause you're good at what you do. Like, I don't, I don't even like that floored me. So it does mean something to our kids as well. Yeah, it was great. So yeah, don't miss out on that, but it's about also finding the balance, right? And trying to get it all done and that's hard.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Well, and I think too, one thing I've just, one of my naturopathic doctors who I love, but she said to me, she said, sometimes in life you just have to accept and surrender. That's something that as type A first born, like very self -motivated people don't do very well. And sometimes I just have to accept that the laundry might not get done today. And that my house might not look like this looks beautiful, but maybe out there not so much.
Sue Wadden
And that's exactly. And that's okay.
Katie Decker-Erickson
It is okay. And I think like, yeah, I love that. And then Oprah said you can have it all. You just can't have it all at once. And I think that's totally true. And to be okay saying, you know what, the laundry is gonna be there another day, but today I get to create something that's gonna fill my soul and fill a client's soul. And like, to me, that is more important. And to let your kids see that, I think that's magic.
Sue Wadden
It is magic. It's so true. I think that was something I learned along the way. Like it didn't have to be perfect. You know, I love, you know, this is like a funny fact about me. I love to paint. And so like myself, like -
Katie Decker-Erickson
You go buy a gallon.
Sue Wadden
I do. And I like to test it out and see if I like the color. And that's my Zen place. So when I just can't take any more in, I can't talk to anybody. I can't do work. I can't do the mom thing. I like put on a headset and go paint a room and that like re -centers me. Isn't that funny?
Katie Decker-Erickson
Can I ask how many times the room you're in has been painted?
Sue Wadden
This is like the sixth time. So I'm, I mean, it's been everywhere. I love this color. This is a new cut. This is, we launched a new product line. and there's 200 new colors and I just love this product and this is, it is, it's beautiful.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely stunning.
Sue Wadden
It's a color called sun bleached and it's like a really beautiful color. So there you go. Yeah. It's totally beautiful.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I absolutely love it. Okay. I want to go into our rapid fire round in the interest of time, which we love to do at the end with guests. What would you say is a book that most changed your life, business or both?
Sue Wadden
This is, I'll give you, I love fiction. I love to lose myself again in things. So there's a book called Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rice. And it is a book I read in high school and it's the prequel to Jane Eyre. So it's the story of the woman that lived in the attic who was like the mad woman in the attic. And it tells her story and it was so beautifully written. It's set in the tropics. Like I learned very young where, where fiction could take me and I could visualize it. And I think that was obviously like a guidepost to a creative career. And I absolutely love that book. So probably nobody has ever read it but me, but that was, that was a formative book for me.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Well, until now, until now, our viewers and listeners out there, Amazon is going to be like, what happened?
Sue Wadden
What is going on? Yes. And you know, there's a million color books, but if I had to pick one that really changed my life, it was that book, Wide Sargasso Sea.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I love that. What piece of advice would you have told yourself when you were 20?
Sue Wadden
You know, I jumped into my career right away. So I graduated from college or, you know, started my career. Like I left school on a Friday and started on Monday. I wish I would have traveled. I wish I wish I would have taken a second and done a little travel because it just got busy. family and weddings and kids and everything. And I wish I had a little more time in the beginning of my career because now it's a little more difficult to get away and like just get away. So I would encourage everybody like travel, do what you can before you start and take advantage of that time because you learn so much from travel and seeing outside of sort of the space that you live in, it's really powerful.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I couldn't agree more. One of the books that I love is the four hour work week with Timothy Ferris, which is entertainables, I feel like, but has a bunch of great ideas in it.
Sue Wadden
Agreed. It's something to work for.
Katie Decker-Erickson
It's something to work for. And just his conversation point about don't wait until you're retired and your health can potentially be in jeopardy to then decide to go travel the world. When you're young, able -bodied and you can sleep on that hard rock and it's not going to send you to your chiropractor.
Sue Wadden
Exactly.
Katie Decker-Erickson
That kind of idea. And I think it does inform, especially creative juices, you can't pour from an empty cup. And for me, seeing other things, other places, other colors, other environments, other...people man talk about a cup seller.
Sue Wadden
It does and you know I have the luxury in this job that's so great I get to travel a lot and see a lot of things but you know for my daughter she's 18 she's just about to start college you know I do not expect that she starts a job right away unless it's the greatest thing ever I want her to travel I want her to go and experience a little bit before she starts because you just don't get that time back.
Katie Decker-Erickson
You never get time back I think that's like such a huge thing which leads us to our third lightning round question. What is your best time management hack that you have found works?
Sue Wadden
So I love tech. I love technology. So I think technology is the thing that's going to save us all. You know, like AI does not scare me at all. I think it's going to be the thing that helps. I want Jarvis. I want to walk around my house and like talk to something that's going to help me, you know, call my mom back and pay this bill and do those things. So right now I use technology a ton for those savings, whether it's like a, you know, a software platform or. an app on my phone, I've been into that a lot to help me. Yeah, just keep it all together.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I'm so with you. I often joke if my Google calendar goes down, the world is toast. Like I will be out of commission for the foreseeable future. You should call help because we are flat on our face over here. If the Google calendar.
Sue Wadden
Totally. I mean, I can't even write notes anymore. Like my handwriting is so bad now cause I type so much that like, I can't even read my own notes. So I need, I need tech. It helps me.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I feel that in every single way. Oh, so I'm so glad you were on. Thank you so much.
Sue Wadden
This was a delight. So fun.
Katie Decker-Erickson
So that's a wrap. Thank you for joining us for another insightful episode of Colorful Conversations with Katie. I sure enjoyed having you listen along. I hope you enjoyed our discussion today and found those valuable insights to help you thrive in your design business and in your life as we really try to merge them here.
To all of our listeners, thank you for joining us on this journey of learning and growth. your enthusiasm and your dedication to honing your business skills as design professionals. It really inspires me to keep bringing you valuable content like you heard today.
Remember to subscribe to our podcast so you never miss an episode. If you have any questions or topics you'd like me to cover in future episodes, please feel free to reach out. We want to make sure we're getting you what you need. And if you would like one -on -one time with me, I would love to discuss your firm and plan intentional steps for your growth and success. You can book a call with me on our website at www .colorworks .coach.
Until next time, keep dreaming, designing, and mastering the art of running a successful interior design business that scales to your life. This is Katie Erickson signing off and bye for now.
I'm your host, Katie Erickson
I’m a commercial exterior and interior designer with an MBA and nearly 20 years in the industry. When I’m not leading my coast-to-coast, multi-million dollar firm, I love sharing real talk on the business of design, blending insights from 20 years as a business professor. I keep it honest—balancing work and chasing my two girls around.
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Color Trends 2024
Have you ever heard humans are houseplants with emotions? It’s so true! And color trends for 2024 only add to this conversation.
When Susan Wadden speaks, we listen because she knows all about color! Sue started with Sherwin-Williams right out of college. Since then her role in the world of color and color trends has only grown. Today Sue joins me to chat about color trends for 2024 and specifically how they’re going to impact designers. Grab a cup of tea and press play!
In this episode, we cover:
Color trends for 2024
The big shift happening in color in 2024
What’s happening with neutrals
Themes to look for in design in 2024
Trends in exteriors and building and construction
Color palette breakdown for 2024
The new color families
The impact these color trends will have on design for the rest of the decade
How one color can be applied to different design styles
What designers need to know about specifying color and designing
What to look for in evidence-based design
Color trend presentation and the health, safety, wellness connection
How client education is going to look different in 2024
The new value-add for the clients in hiring a designer
A mini deep-dive into ontological design
Sue’s wise words to any moms out there balancing life and work
The new color Sue already has on her walls
What are you most excited for with the color trends of 2024? Come say hi and share your thoughts on Instagram!
More About Susan Wadden, Director of Color Marketing, The Americas Group
Sue is a color expert for The Americas Group, responsible for the company’s overall philosophy of color leadership and overseeing world color trend forecasting.
She began her career at Sherwin-Williams in 1998 as an interior designer and color marketing specialist. With a bachelor of arts degree in interior design from the Cleveland Institute of Art, Sue is active in the Color Marketing Group, the Color Association of the United States, the Inter-Society Color Council, the American Society of Interior Design, and the Interior Design Society.
Links and Mentioned Resources
Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rhys
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Welcome to “Colorful Conversations with Katie”! Join us for a vibrant webcast where we seamlessly blend the realms of design and business in a fun and professional setting. Available on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms!
Hosted by the dynamic Katie, a seasoned expert with nearly 20 years of experience in both fields, this engaging series promises to ignite your creative spark and sharpen your entrepreneurial acumen. From exploring the latest design trends to uncovering strategies for building successful ventures, we dive deep into the colorful world where aesthetics meet profitability.
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The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Colorful Conversations with Katie podcast follows
Katie Decker-Erickson
Welcome to colorful conversations with Katie from exploring the latest trends to uncovering strategies for building successful ventures. We are going to dive deep into the colorful world where aesthetics meet profitability all while balancing work with life. You know it, whether you're a budding designer or savvy entrepreneur, this webcast is your go -to source for inspiration insights and a hopefully dash of lively conversation.
Today's guest is Sue Wadden. She is a color expert for the America's group. and is responsible for the company's overall philosophy of color leadership and overseeing world color trend forecasting, which is a huge event, which is why we're so excited to have her. She began her career at Sherwin -Williams in 1998 as an interior designer and color marketing specialist. And with a bachelor of arts degree in interior design from the Cleveland Institute of Art, Sue is active in the color marketing group, the Color Association of the United States, Inter -Society Color Council, I didn't know there were so many colors. The American Society of Interior Design and the Interior Design Society, not to be confused. So with that, without further ado, welcome Sue, we're so glad to have you here.
Sue Wadden
Hi Katie, that is quite a mouthful. I appreciate that awesome intro, thank you.
Katie Decker-Erickson
You're so welcome. I'm so glad I had a second cup of tea today.
Sue Wadden
And a Friday to know us.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Right? So we're so excited. Of course. If anyone, if you've been around our industry for any length of time, you know, Sue, you know that she is all things for color for Sherwin Williams and the America's group. And when Sue speaks, we listen because the woman knows all about color. So what are we seeing? I know we've kind of done all the colors for 2023. Do we have any idea yet what 2024 is shaping up to look like it from a culture?
Sue Wadden
We do. We do. So we just, at this recording time, we are just about to launch our 2024. So the beginning of August, we're ready to reveal our. you know, our direction for 24. And I think what you're gonna see is a little bit of a shift in sort of the insights in color, particularly from us. I've got a little fatigue from telling kind of the stories that we've all heard. Hybrid living, nature inspired, like we have all heard all of those themes coming out of the pandemic that we're kind of in this shared experience timing. So the stories haven't changed a ton. And so our direction is gonna be more focused on color families. I really wanna like dig deep into what's actually happening with the trends within a color family. So if I talk about colors warming up, what does that really mean? Like, are we revealing that specifically with hues? And we're not gonna talk about neutrals for the first time in, I don't know, my career maybe. I'm taking a break from neutrals because we've spent like the last decade has just been so predominant. with neutrals.
Katie Decker-Erickson
More than the last decade. And to me, neutrals feel like they go back to the 08 recession when all the grays came on board. And so I feel like we've been like a 15 year abyss of neutrals.
Sue Wadden
It is. And it's, it's exhausting. Like I'm just done with it. I need a break. I think people need inspiration. They need like, you know, visual eye candy and stimulus. And I know consumers, they don't even know what they're looking for. There's so much confusion and Instagram is changing the game with all these like, you know, things that photograph well on Instagram usually are white and light, right? They're not always deep, dramatic color. So it's really, it's made our industry a little, it's turned its head a little bit, which I think is a fun thing to talk about. So maybe we can dig into that a little bit.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Yeah, I would love to go down that road. So what are you seeing? I mean, there was an interesting article in the New York Times last week about how the farmhouse style is never going away. It's like, here to stay with black roofs and white board mat and I, like in this industry, it was funny. We were talking as a team and our whole team is like, we haven't done farmhouse in years. And like we're over farmhouse, it's been five years since we specified farmhouse. So just kind of running with that idea, like what are you seeing that you think is going to pop? Cause there is confusion, you're right, there's total confusion.
Sue Wadden
Well, so you know, it goes like it starts at the coast and moves into the middle. So, you know, Midwest is still very farmhouse, it's very relatable. It's...The styling is a little more contemporary than it's ever been, which I think is a nice change, but it's accessible. So people that are uncertain of like pushing the norms, they rely on like a farmhouse style to like feel really good. Whereas on the coast, it's much more modernist. We're definitely seeing modernism come in and like mainstreaming like for the average American, like who would never have looked at something very contemporary. There is a huge emphasis on that in exteriors and sort of home building and construction. So I think that's really interesting. And again, it's that austerity, it's that hyper contrast, that black and white thing, right? There's no gray, right? That's not something in the middle. So we're seeing these extremes, very angular approach. And that's gonna be interesting to watch. Even like...in regions that you wouldn't see those colors like Florida or Texas where the heat is really a factor. Seeing an all -black house or dark charcoal is not, that's not typical. So it's really an interesting sort of pivot that we've seen in the last five years, really post -pandemic.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Which is lovely to be able to see. And are we starting to see more of an embrace of pops of color? Like I'm talking. No. vivid colors, because I feel like that's just being roped in. I mean, we kind of dabbled in it with the musters, but now it's like the fuchsias, nobody blinks that. And it's really refreshing to be able to see some images coming out of color.
Sue Wadden
And again, it doesn't have to be all over in a room, you know, the cliche of the accent wall or front door, but seeing a vivid red, a beautiful blue, a turquoise, like some sort of jewel tone is just such a nice change from where we've been. I think what we are definitely gonna continue to see is like those deep dark colors. So maybe bold red is not your thing, but you could go with almost like a maroon or a cordovan or a deep plum color and get that chromacity, get that depth of color, but still have it be sort of easy to live with. And I find those colors to be amazing. They're really beautiful. I'm in the Midwest, I'm in Cleveland, Ohio. So we have long winters. So sometimes bright colors here with the light that we get, they just look out of place. So I tend to live in sort of a deeper, darker state when I choose color here. And we're seeing that as like a prevailing trend that we're going to definitely talk about it in 24.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Tell me about how you're shifting your color presentation for 24 to deviating from those, you know, standard, the nature palette, the,
Sue Wadden
yes, the, the energy palette, the, the, the cracked and palette, you know, we, we had like a formula kind of.
Katie Decker-Erickson
It sounds like it's a pretty new rollout. Like you've just kind of revisited the entire way you're telling the color story.
Sue Wadden
It is like there's still four stories. And so I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna break it a little bit on this podcast. Okay. We're gonna talk about, we're gonna talk about lights and whites and delicate hues. We're gonna talk about deep tones. I'm gonna talk about blues and greens as a color family, cause there's been this convergence really. I mean, they are some, it's really emblematic of what this decade is gonna be. for color started off heavy with greens and now we're shifting into blues that are gonna be really important. Again, blues never are really, they never go out. And then we're gonna talk about pinks and purples and warm tones, browns. So like kind of startling, like the amount of colors, I've got 48 colors in the palette and they're all broken down by color family. But the, it's just, I'm so excited for it. Cause it's such a departure from where we've been. It's like, how can one color be applied to several different design styles? So say there's an indigo blue, you can see this in contemporary, you can see it in very traditional homes. And so it kind of, it's just about pure color versus design style, which is refreshing. So yeah, I'm excited. I would love to check back in with you and tell you more. We're launching in about a week and a half. So give me a little bit.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Yeah, exactly. So if I'm a designer and I'm hearing of this rollout, how is this going to change how I integrate? You alluded to it a little bit, but how it transposes across different styles. What do I need to know about this new rollout and how it's going to affect how I'm going about specifying color in designing?
Sue Wadden
So one thing that's very important, I think to designers now moving forward, it's not just about specifying a color. It's about really evidence -based design and how we apply it in a space. So we have a whole thread in our, in our, presentation, we do a big trend presentation, that's about health, safety and wellness. So I've taken every color of family and applied a health, safety, wellness principle to each of those families. So like what you should consider an interior is when you select whites and why that's good for humans and the, you know, the human condition and interior. Same with red, same with blue, you know, purple, same with all of them, all of the color families. And I think it's really going to be a tool. You know, we don't think about color. as powerful as color can be. I don't want it to just sit in the background. It can be really a deciding factor in a space. And that's what we wanted to build into this presentation. So that's the biggest difference. It's great.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I think it's going to be incredible. And it ties back into ontological design and that spaces, we don't just design spaces, spaces design us. And we talk about that all the time.
Sue Wadden
Exactly.
Katie Decker-Erickson
So how is this space and arguably the largest component of the design is the color on the walls. And of course the fifth wall being the ceiling. Like, How is that affecting and creating a feeling or a healing or whatever is going on?
Sue Wadden
Whatever's going on, whatever you need.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Yeah. I love that expression, humans are houseplants with emotions.
Sue Wadden
Exactly.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Right. We really are. We need light. We interact with things. We need nurturing. All of that. I think all of that. We don't like to necessarily think about that, but when you start designing in a way that actually considers that human component, it changes everything.
Sue Wadden
It does. And again, we haven't talked in that in like the language of design. I don't know that our clients are thinking about color that way. And I think this is an opportunity to educate as well. So designers know inherently that these are important principles. This is about like kind of spreading the word on why people, clients really need to consider this in their homes as well.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I love that because it also puts the designer in a more reputable position and it's a value add for the client to say, I didn't just choose this color because it's beautiful. I chose this color because of X, Y, and Z reasons related to color theory and how you're going to interact with this color, how this color is going to interact with you. And we create this, this loop of ontological.
Sue Wadden
Exactly. Exactly. Perfect. I haven't heard that expression ontological design. I'm going to take that in my notes.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Oh, it is the best. Yeah. There is a whole field of study emerging on this on how design impacts us, but we impact design. So when you walk in a space that feeling you get, when you walk away from that space, how does that change how you go through the rest of your day? How you think creatively about something? There, one story I love to share is my husband, he would die if I shared this story, by the way. But I'm gonna share it.
Sue Wadden
We won't share this one with anybody.
Katie Decker-Erickson
We've never shared it on the podcast before, but today's the first. We were actually visiting the Phoenix Art Museum a couple of years ago. I wanna say it was last year. And there's this incredible artist and she uses light. in a very unique way. And you walk into a dark room and it's all mirrors and little pieces of led lights hanging down and you can walk through and you feel them brushing on you and you have no sense of space. It's like standing in the universe. And he came out of it and he was crying and he said, I don't know what just happened in there, but I am not like sure what just happened. It was very unsettling and it created like the most, and he is a type A works with engineers, first born, not a touchy feely guy. And so to see him come out of that and be impacted by that in that way, that for me was the moment that captured that is what ontological design is about. And we still talk about it. In fact, my kids still tease him. They call it Starry Nights, which is not the proper name of the piece, but they will say, remember when daddy came out of Starry Nights and was crossed? It's like a moment that they very much remember because it impacted him. So intense.
Sue Wadden
So much. That's great.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Yeah. Which I think, and I think we're going to start, um, there's other brands, is it OXO or OXO, depending on how you say it, but the whole idea that like how we interact with our environment is key. Some of the tools they've created for kitchens are fabulous. And you're like, why did anybody think to do that before?
Sue Wadden
Right.
Katie Decker-Erickson
And it's just the idea that like a human wants to have a better experience using that tool, sitting on that sofa, being in that space. And so how do we start designing with that at the forefront? rather than saying, I just want to create something beautiful. We're creating a beautiful feeling instead that then informs how that person goes out into the world and what they create and what they do and how they live.
Sue Wadden
Love it. Love it. Love it. Well, thank you. Yes. Thank you for that introduction to that term. Again, I think like designers, like we know this, this is inherent already in what we do, but having a framework around it is really important.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Well, and it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing is you're of course, because you're Sue, but you're already light years ahead of this and that you're incorporating that human element into the whole new way you're directing color at Sherwin, which I think is beautiful because it is the most important element.
Sue Wadden
Yeah. Yes. I agree.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Element. I want to talk a little bit, going back to the start of your career, because one thing we always talk about is, um, family and balancing life and balancing your business and how do you do all this? And you've had an incredible career at Sherwin that has spanned decades, which is why it's such a treat and privilege to sit with you. So I so appreciate your time and joining us. You know, in thinking through that and building a family and doing what you did and the lessons learned along the way, the most probably simple way to put it is how did you do it? So like, how did you do it to the moms who are out there saying, I want, I want to do what I love and I want to create, but my gosh, I have kids and family or I have. other challenges in life, or maybe I don't have kids, but I'm just trying to figure this out. Walk us through your journey a little bit.
Sue Wadden
So I, we have two kids. Um, and Sherwin has been my home since internship and college days. So everything in my life has been, has happened while I've been at Sherwin Williams, met my husband, got married, had kids, uh, aging parents. I just lost my, my dad this, this fall, right? Like, You know, it's not always even just about kids and family. It's about how our parents age. That's, that's you're rolling it. If you're in your mid forties, you're maybe experiencing a little bit of that. You know, that's a challenge I didn't anticipate. Um, so I think the most important thing has been this career to keep me grounded. Like I think when the kids are young, yeah, the first 10 years I used, I have this anecdote that I always say, it was just making sure they stayed alive. Right. Like, Oh God, am I doing this? Yes. Right. And then the second half right now that they're in their teenage years, they're thriving and doing great. And I now am so happy that I stuck with the difficult years of trying to balance work and career so that I can focus again on my career. Like I can't wait to spend time more working. I know that sounds nuts, but you, you know, and I don't know if you feel this way, but when they're little, you're like half at work, half at home. And you've like, I didn't feel like I was doing anything great during those years. And I was, and I don't know that anybody ever noticed that, but I felt like I wasn't able to give my 100 % self anywhere. And then now it's changing and shifting that they're a little more autonomous and, you know, growing up so much and that I can really focus on, on what I want to do and expand my career. And I don't know, write a book on color. Like, I don't even know what that thing is going to be, but I want, I can't wait for that chapter, but without having the balance of, um, my creative juices going to something that was outside of my home was really, really important. So I know it's a struggle. It's really hard to work and be a working mom and also have a creative career, but it's worth it in the long run. I just say, you know, like stick with it, keep going. Even when the days are hard and you just want to cry and sleep and, and now it's like a mental health day. Yeah. It's like stick with it because it's worth it in the long run.
Katie Decker-Erickson
No, it's interesting. You should say that because one thing, when I had my first daughter, the one question I don't think a man would typically get was, are you going to continue designing after you have your kid? And I'm like, of course I'm going to continue designing. And this is what I love to do. It kind of took me back. And then as I grew my mommy wings, as I call them, I kind of figured out how to mom, I always say I'm a better designer because I'm a mom. I'm a better mom. I feel like they actually work really well together and they inform each other. And I am a happier camper. when I get to do both.
Sue Wadden
Yes, I 100 % agree with that. You know what's interesting now too with older kids is they're super proud of having a working mom, which is, I did not expect that, that like my son, if I have a 15 year old son who's like into video games and not design, and he had mentioned something in passing like, well, of course mom, like it's cause you're good at what you do. Like, I don't, I don't even like that floored me. So it does mean something to our kids as well. Yeah, it was great. So yeah, don't miss out on that, but it's about also finding the balance, right? And trying to get it all done and that's hard.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Well, and I think too, one thing I've just, one of my naturopathic doctors who I love, but she said to me, she said, sometimes in life you just have to accept and surrender. That's something that as type A first born, like very self -motivated people don't do very well. And sometimes I just have to accept that the laundry might not get done today. And that my house might not look like this looks beautiful, but maybe out there not so much.
Sue Wadden
And that's exactly. And that's okay.
Katie Decker-Erickson
It is okay. And I think like, yeah, I love that. And then Oprah said you can have it all. You just can't have it all at once. And I think that's totally true. And to be okay saying, you know what, the laundry is gonna be there another day, but today I get to create something that's gonna fill my soul and fill a client's soul. And like, to me, that is more important. And to let your kids see that, I think that's magic.
Sue Wadden
It is magic. It's so true. I think that was something I learned along the way. Like it didn't have to be perfect. You know, I love, you know, this is like a funny fact about me. I love to paint. And so like myself, like -
Katie Decker-Erickson
You go buy a gallon.
Sue Wadden
I do. And I like to test it out and see if I like the color. And that's my Zen place. So when I just can't take any more in, I can't talk to anybody. I can't do work. I can't do the mom thing. I like put on a headset and go paint a room and that like re -centers me. Isn't that funny?
Katie Decker-Erickson
Can I ask how many times the room you're in has been painted?
Sue Wadden
This is like the sixth time. So I'm, I mean, it's been everywhere. I love this color. This is a new cut. This is, we launched a new product line. and there's 200 new colors and I just love this product and this is, it is, it's beautiful.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely stunning.
Sue Wadden
It's a color called sun bleached and it's like a really beautiful color. So there you go. Yeah. It's totally beautiful.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I absolutely love it. Okay. I want to go into our rapid fire round in the interest of time, which we love to do at the end with guests. What would you say is a book that most changed your life, business or both?
Sue Wadden
This is, I'll give you, I love fiction. I love to lose myself again in things. So there's a book called Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rice. And it is a book I read in high school and it's the prequel to Jane Eyre. So it's the story of the woman that lived in the attic who was like the mad woman in the attic. And it tells her story and it was so beautifully written. It's set in the tropics. Like I learned very young where, where fiction could take me and I could visualize it. And I think that was obviously like a guidepost to a creative career. And I absolutely love that book. So probably nobody has ever read it but me, but that was, that was a formative book for me.
Katie Decker-Erickson
Well, until now, until now, our viewers and listeners out there, Amazon is going to be like, what happened?
Sue Wadden
What is going on? Yes. And you know, there's a million color books, but if I had to pick one that really changed my life, it was that book, Wide Sargasso Sea.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I love that. What piece of advice would you have told yourself when you were 20?
Sue Wadden
You know, I jumped into my career right away. So I graduated from college or, you know, started my career. Like I left school on a Friday and started on Monday. I wish I would have traveled. I wish I wish I would have taken a second and done a little travel because it just got busy. family and weddings and kids and everything. And I wish I had a little more time in the beginning of my career because now it's a little more difficult to get away and like just get away. So I would encourage everybody like travel, do what you can before you start and take advantage of that time because you learn so much from travel and seeing outside of sort of the space that you live in, it's really powerful.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I couldn't agree more. One of the books that I love is the four hour work week with Timothy Ferris, which is entertainables, I feel like, but has a bunch of great ideas in it.
Sue Wadden
Agreed. It's something to work for.
Katie Decker-Erickson
It's something to work for. And just his conversation point about don't wait until you're retired and your health can potentially be in jeopardy to then decide to go travel the world. When you're young, able -bodied and you can sleep on that hard rock and it's not going to send you to your chiropractor.
Sue Wadden
Exactly.
Katie Decker-Erickson
That kind of idea. And I think it does inform, especially creative juices, you can't pour from an empty cup. And for me, seeing other things, other places, other colors, other environments, other...people man talk about a cup seller.
Sue Wadden
It does and you know I have the luxury in this job that's so great I get to travel a lot and see a lot of things but you know for my daughter she's 18 she's just about to start college you know I do not expect that she starts a job right away unless it's the greatest thing ever I want her to travel I want her to go and experience a little bit before she starts because you just don't get that time back.
Katie Decker-Erickson
You never get time back I think that's like such a huge thing which leads us to our third lightning round question. What is your best time management hack that you have found works?
Sue Wadden
So I love tech. I love technology. So I think technology is the thing that's going to save us all. You know, like AI does not scare me at all. I think it's going to be the thing that helps. I want Jarvis. I want to walk around my house and like talk to something that's going to help me, you know, call my mom back and pay this bill and do those things. So right now I use technology a ton for those savings, whether it's like a, you know, a software platform or. an app on my phone, I've been into that a lot to help me. Yeah, just keep it all together.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I'm so with you. I often joke if my Google calendar goes down, the world is toast. Like I will be out of commission for the foreseeable future. You should call help because we are flat on our face over here. If the Google calendar.
Sue Wadden
Totally. I mean, I can't even write notes anymore. Like my handwriting is so bad now cause I type so much that like, I can't even read my own notes. So I need, I need tech. It helps me.
Katie Decker-Erickson
I feel that in every single way. Oh, so I'm so glad you were on. Thank you so much.
Sue Wadden
This was a delight. So fun.
Katie Decker-Erickson
So that's a wrap. Thank you for joining us for another insightful episode of Colorful Conversations with Katie. I sure enjoyed having you listen along. I hope you enjoyed our discussion today and found those valuable insights to help you thrive in your design business and in your life as we really try to merge them here.
To all of our listeners, thank you for joining us on this journey of learning and growth. your enthusiasm and your dedication to honing your business skills as design professionals. It really inspires me to keep bringing you valuable content like you heard today.
Remember to subscribe to our podcast so you never miss an episode. If you have any questions or topics you'd like me to cover in future episodes, please feel free to reach out. We want to make sure we're getting you what you need. And if you would like one -on -one time with me, I would love to discuss your firm and plan intentional steps for your growth and success. You can book a call with me on our website at www .colorworks .coach.
Until next time, keep dreaming, designing, and mastering the art of running a successful interior design business that scales to your life. This is Katie Erickson signing off and bye for now.
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