Have you ever wondered what goes into selecting the color of the year? Who picks these trends? Do these colors have any longevity to them? What are we supposed to do with the color choices as designers? And will we ever be done with gray?

I am thrilled for you to hear this roundtable discussion with Susan Wadden of Sherwin-Williams and Ruthanne Hanlon of PPG Paints. These ladies dished all the secrets of the meticulous processes to select the year's color. So many variables and pieces of data are analyzed by these large, global teams before we ever hear the color trend results! Designers and consumers alike will love this colorful conversation—specifically about 2024!

In this episode, we cover:

• The Sherwin-Williams 2024 color of the year

• The PPG 2024 color of the year

• How Sherwin-Williams & PPG choose their colors of the year

• The deeper purpose and meaning behind the color of the year’s existence

• The types of color stories and trends stylists are seeing globally

• The variety of industry trends color stylists monitor 

• How the data about global trends is analyzed by these stylist teams

• How colors of the year play across geographical regions

• The differences in color data results at PPG and Sherwin-Williams for 2024

• The role social media plays in color trends in design

• If colors of the year are meant to be applicable to every design situation

• What to expect from 2024 in terms of color tones

• How geopolitics are influencing color palettes for 2024 more than ever

• How color of the year is different for consumers and designers

• The intended lifetime for the color of the year

• Surprising color trends for 2024 and years ahead

• What the backup color of the year was for 2024 at PPG and Sherwin-Williams

What do you think of the 2024 colors of the year? Which are you most eager to incorporate in a design? Find us on social and let us know your thoughts!

More about Ruthanne Hanlon and Susan Wadden

Ruthanne Hanlon has been in the field of interior design since 1994, her career includes experience in kitchen and bath design, custom furnishings and space planning.  Ruthanne has focused specifically on color specifications since 2000 as the National Color and Design Manager for PPG Paints and has consulted on commercial and residential projects using color's powerful influence in representing a brand, transforming a space, and creating an atmosphere and providing the personalization and character everyone strives for.  As a member of the PPG Global Color Team since 2010 Ruthanne has been directly involved in identifying and translating influencers and the direction of color and design trends as they apply to a variety of segments. Ruthanne travels North America and the Caribbean conducting accredited CEU presentations for architects and designers that showcase PPG’s in-depth understanding of commercial and consumer trends.

Sue Wadden began her career as a color expert at Sherwin-Williams in 1998, as an interior designer and color marketing specialist. Today, as director of color marketing, Wadden is the face and voice of color for Sherwin-Williams, responsible for the company’s overall vision and philosophy of color leadership. With over 20 years of color marketing experience, Sue is an expert in color development, palette strategy, consumer, specifier and commercial color insights, color styling and trend forecasting. Wadden serves as editorial advisor to STIR® magazine for design professionals and takes an active role in interfacing with consumer and trade media on topics surrounding color.

Links and Mentioned Resources

Ep 2 Color Trends of 2023 w/ Sue Wadden

Upward

Limitless

Krypton

Guacamole

Tricorn Black

Purple Basil

Urbane Bronze

Taiga

Antiquarian Brown

Connect with Ruthanne and Susan

Ruthanne (LinkedIn)

Susan (LinkedIn)

Connect with Katie Decker-Erickson

Book Your Coaching Strategy Session with Katie!

Business Coaching for Interior Designers

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More about Colorful Conversations with Katie

Welcome to “Colorful Conversations with Katie”! Join us for a vibrant webcast where we seamlessly blend the realms of design and business in a fun and professional setting. Available on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms!

Hosted by the dynamic Katie, a seasoned expert with nearly 20 years of experience in both fields, this engaging series promises to ignite your creative spark and sharpen your entrepreneurial acumen. From exploring the latest design trends to uncovering strategies for building successful ventures, we dive deep into the colorful world where aesthetics meet profitability.

Whether you’re a budding designer or a savvy entrepreneur, this webcast is your go-to source for inspiration, insights, and a dash of lively conversation. Tune in and let your imagination, business and life take flight!

This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you. 

This episode of Colorful Conversations with Katie is brought to you in partnership with Leah Bryant Co.

The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Colorful Conversations with Katie podcast follows

Katie Decker-Erickson (00:01.934)

Hello ladies and welcome to the show.

Sue Wadden (00:04.654)

Hi, Katie.

Ruthanne Hanlon (00:06.548)

Thanks so much for having us.

Katie Decker-Erickson (00:08.211)

Hi, we're so excited that you're here and that we can have this conversation because it is one that intrigues all designers. Color is always kind of that it's out there. What do we do with it? What's changing? What's trending? How long do trends last? Who picks trends? I have tons of questions to ask today and I'm really excited to get into it with each of you. So let's go ahead and start with you, Sue. Color of the year for Sherwin-Williams. What is it? Describe it a little bit to us.

Sue Wadden (00:34.066)

It's a beautiful soft blue called Upward. Color number is 6239. We, if I could describe it, I would just say it's an easy, breezy, really lovely, like ethereal blue. It's light. And it kind of sounds like the name. It's like this soft sky blue. It's great.

Katie Decker-Erickson (00:37.825)

guys.

Katie Decker-Erickson (00:55.134)

Awesome and same for you Ruth Ann color of the year for PPG and a little description about it.

Ruthanne Hanlon (01:00.38)

Yeah, so we, sure, we went with Limitless, which is also a soft color. I think that's a really strong trend. It is a pale yellow, almost a neutral, and it was chosen because it has grounding energy, but hints that optimism and joy, and we all need a little bit of optimism and joy in our lives.

Katie Decker-Erickson (01:21.11)

Yeah, 8% interest rates, people need optimism and joy in life. It's been crazy, that coupled with inflation. Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (01:26.505)

Maybe we should have picked a brighter yellow. Yeah.

Sue Wadden (01:29.65)

Hahaha!

Katie Decker-Erickson (01:31.186)

Right? I mean, especially over the last few years. My gosh, it's been insane just the last year watching the market. And I don't think anybody I've never seen anything quite like this before. It's just fascinating to observe. It's really unbelievable. So let's talk about how we arrived at the color of the year. So, um, Sue, what drove you to this blue or how does Sherwin go about choosing color of the year? Because a lot of us, I think, think it's kind of arbitrary. It is not arbitrary for our anyone choosing a color

Sue Wadden (01:58.546)

It is not arbitrary.

Katie Decker-Erickson (01:59.86)

of the year. Yeah, the intentionality is off the charts. Let's dive into that a little.

Sue Wadden (02:03.85)

Yeah, so we have an annual forecast workshop where we hash out the, you know, the thing that we're going to talk about what we're seeing at a macro level and then how that translates to color. And for 2024, we have been tracking, you know, the sort of convergence of blue and green as a core and central color family. And greens were all about like post COVID, back to nature, biophilic inspiration. And now that is really translating into this emergence of blues.

for us. And so we just wanted to like kind of share that insight. So color of the year often acts as that like marker for where things are going. And it sort of functions as not only a beautiful color, but also like this is an indicator. This is where things are going. So watery dusty blues are going to be really important in the second half of this decade. And so that's why we really chose this is our color of the year.

Katie Decker-Erickson (02:41.218)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (02:58.914)

That makes complete sense. Shed some light on that from your perspective for us, Ruth Ann.

Ruthanne Hanlon (03:05.424)

Basically what Sue said. So we do a very similar approach. PPG has a team of over 30 stylists that do trending and forecasting and design work for automotive, aerospace, consumer electronics, which is cell phones, appliances, and then of course architectural coatings. So those stylists have a year's worth of homework. And they are out there, you know, going to all the major industry trade shows. That's a small piece of it though, because that's what's already coming our way.

Sue Wadden (03:07.322)

Hmm

Katie Decker-Erickson (03:07.766)

Hahaha

Ruthanne Hanlon (03:32.136)

The bigger piece is what is the consumer moods and mindsets and how are we feeling? Because we like to say we don't choose what the trends are. It's just identifying how people are feeling and then using color associations to either support them or be an antidote for like the yellow is an antidote for all the anxiety and the unrest. So that's how we compile them is gathering all that information. We have a workshop as well, it's once a year.

Katie Decker-Erickson (03:33.083)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (03:54.519)

Yep.

Ruthanne Hanlon (04:00.868)

and share all that information. I think what's interesting to note though, and Sue you probably had the same experience, for the last three years in a row now, so every stylist has 30 minutes to show what they've seen and where they see it going. And again, this is global. And for the last three years, every stylist has had almost the same story. It was a little spooky the first year, but I think it really speaks to how much smaller our world has become and how quickly the trends are cycling around and how...

Katie Decker-Erickson (04:23.903)

Interesting.

Mm-hmm.

Ruthanne Hanlon (04:30.676)

things are impacting us all globally at the same time.

Sue Wadden (04:34.262)

Yeah, and how connected we are for sure.

Ruthanne Hanlon (04:36.616)

Yes, yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (04:37.814)

Yeah, if we ever doubted that, I feel like COVID really did change that for us. It increased connectivity in a way that I'm not sure as human beings were capable of processing in some ways. There's the beauty of it in that we have access to all of this data. And it's real time. But sometimes I think the human nature and just who we are as organic beings sometimes goes, this is just overload as far as what inputs. Even just if we limit ourselves and we take off

We just limit this to design. The amount of data in just the design world and pooling it and keeping up with it and knowing what's going on, it's voluminous. Yeah. So what would you guys, very overwhelming, which is why I appreciate that you guys go in and disseminate the colors of the year because as a designer, it can be.

Sue Wadden (05:10.348)

Right.

Sue Wadden (05:17.486)

It's exhaustive. It is, it's exhaustive.

Ruthanne Hanlon (05:21.116)

And it can be overwhelming too.

Katie Decker-Erickson (05:33.886)

a lot and color's just one aspect of design, right? We have the textures and then we have perspective and I mean it goes on and on and on. And so having one narrowed down area is extremely, extremely helpful. I don't think too a lot of people realize, I mean as far as trends and what you're looking at, we're looking at fashion trends, we're looking at automotive trends, we're looking at to get to this color of the year, right?

Sue Wadden (05:56.738)

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, it's this cross-functional team that comes together. And so you get indicators from all sorts of inputs like Ruthanne was saying, but there's always like a through line. There's a thread and that becomes like the point of view for each company. And I think that's important. So like when we start talking about all this information, all this data, we are seeing so much more than we were 10 years ago, but you have to have a point of view, right? So it becomes like, all right, I'm putting my toe in the sand. This is the thing I'm gonna talk about.

Katie Decker-Erickson (06:09.236)

Mm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (06:20.31)

Hmm. Yeah.

Sue Wadden (06:26.69)

And I think that's what's gonna be interesting to watch. We don't all wanna tell the same story. We wanna share our insights, but have a point of view. And that's where I think it's gonna get really interesting. So while it's validation, if we're all kind of in the same color family and tracking the same things, I like seeing what like PPG has to say about Limitless. Cause that's their point of view. And I think that's really important for designers.

Katie Decker-Erickson (06:49.624)

Sure.

Katie Decker-Erickson (06:54.302)

It's interesting when we go back and we piece together all these colors of the year from all the manufacturers, I often find we get a really beautiful palette. And there's even, there's high tones, low tones, calm tones, things that tend to pull more southwest, which I want to talk about geography in a minute on that and color of the year. But it's really fascinating to see all the views. But out of it, you see a continuity to the point of dusty or calm or muted. I mean, we're not coming out with a bright,

Sue Wadden (07:02.067)

It is.

Katie Decker-Erickson (07:24.756)

mango yellow, right? Or we're not coming out with that truly vibrant eggplant purple right now. That's just would be way out of line. It's interesting for us to see as the non-choosers who inherit the palette how there is often a lot of continuity between it. I mentioned geography. How do you juggle geography and color of the year? Do colors of the year play across all geographical regions or is geography even a factor for you in choosing?

Sue Wadden (07:26.499)

Right.

Sue Wadden (07:54.77)

Ruthanne, you want to start this one? Feel it.

Ruthanne Hanlon (07:56.384)

Sure, I think that's an excellent question. And you bring up different colors and different selections, and that's part of what plays into it. If we picked a color specific to architectural code in North America, it might be different than the global one and the one that has to then resonate with automotive and aerospace. So it is very challenging to choose that one color that's going to work across the globe and for every segment. But it's because of the fact that we

Katie Decker-Erickson (08:12.61)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (08:16.308)

Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (08:25.544)

Like we said earlier, with the world becoming so much smaller, there are still some regional differences, but not nearly like it used to be 10, 15 years ago. Even if you just look specifically to North America, there's oftentimes I'm working on collections in Florida, and you would think they were in New England, or ones in Scottsdale that look like something from Chicago. Because one, people are more transient, and moving from one geography to the other. But the bigger reason is

Katie Decker-Erickson (08:49.399)

Hmm.

Ruthanne Hanlon (08:53.084)

what we're doing now, social media and podcasts. And the information overload, because what is happening in say Waco, Texas, is all of a sudden very popular in Syracuse, New York. And because we're all seeing the same things on all these different social media outlets. So, and we're seeing it at the same time too. So I'd be interested to hear what you have to say, Sue, but we've seen a big decrease in these regional pallets.

Katie Decker-Erickson (09:03.58)

Yeah.

Sue Wadden (09:19.554)

Yeah, so I would say totally the opposite of that for us. So color of the year tends to be, I know, that was a great answer. You would think that would be consistent across, but what we're finding, like color of the year functions as a little bit of the, again, that through line of color. Like we wanna tell that color story globally, but our teams are finding that regional information is what a lot of designers are requesting. They wanna feel.

Katie Decker-Erickson (09:19.938)

Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (09:24.494)

That's why I love this.

Ruthanne Hanlon (09:25.8)

Ha ha ha!

Katie Decker-Erickson (09:31.086)

Ahem.

Sue Wadden (09:48.354)

like there's a customizable point of view on color. And so, you know, there's like sub markets that we're really leaning into. So like Miami feels very different than coastal Florida and North Florida, which feels very different than Charleston, which is very different than New England, which is different from obviously the Pacific Northwest and Arizona. So I think for our customers, we're getting, mostly designers, we're gonna get back to a little more regionalism.

Katie Decker-Erickson (09:49.442)

Hmm.

Sue Wadden (10:16.954)

not necessarily tied to Color of the Year, because that's such a large campaign, but like in dedicated resources to support. And I just think that's the ebb and flow of where color is. For a long time, everybody wanted to know, like it colors across the globe. And now they're like, nope, this is where we live. This is what we wanna know. And this is reflective of sort of the human side of where we live in design. So it's just interesting to track those changes.

Katie Decker-Erickson (10:20.75)

Sure.

Katie Decker-Erickson (10:27.124)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (10:34.772)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (10:40.078)

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (10:41.92)

Do you think that's being spurred by COVID, like you mentioned earlier, and our connection to our community and either where we are or where we're from? That would make sense, yeah.

Sue Wadden (10:51.819)

I think so. And maybe it's a little bit of like trend reaction, like trend overload. It's a noisy space. There are a lot of people that are not just paint brands in this space. So I think designers are like, yeah, this is great. I love it. But tell me more about where I live. And I think that's going to be a challenge to communicate color. Not a challenge, but a great challenge.

Katie Decker-Erickson (10:53.166)

Hmm.

Ruthanne Hanlon (11:08.328)

Yep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (11:08.862)

Mm-hmm.

Sue Wadden (11:14.006)

So, you know, like again, with our forecast teams leading into the people in the region, the designers in the region, to kind of tell that sort of customized story. I don't know, Katie, what do you think? Do you see both sides of that?

Katie Decker-Erickson (11:27.914)

You know, it's a great question and I'm sitting here and I'm literally straddling the fence like a rabbit squirrel because I see both sides of this in every single way. There's times we definitely need the customization. I will never forget living in Scottsdale probably about 15 years ago. And there was this building, this multifamily building in downtown Tempe and they put blue. Like I'm talking Navy blue before Navy became a thing. And I'm like, blue, have you all seen any water around here? Like it felt so out of context because especially then,

Sue Wadden (11:54.775)

Right.

Katie Decker-Erickson (11:58.008)

tones. It was so solid in the desert tones and some deeper greens maybe that like kind of played to a saguaro cactus but blue like oceanic blue and it was very jarring. That being said now I feel like so much of it has changed in that the pellets we're creating

It back to those dusty colors that I think Ruthann mentioned. We're seeing so many of those play even in Scottsdale. We just did a project on Camelback in Phoenix and it was grays, light blues, greens, the crossover you mentioned Sue of the blue green correlation. That's exactly what it was. And so to see that pop up now, it's very, very different. I do think people are transient.

And yet I also think people want differentiation. They want to feel, as we see more and more people locked out of the home market, and they can't afford to buy at 8% interest rates, and they're going to be potentially in an apartment for their entire lives now is what the story is becoming. They want a place that does feel unique and special to them. So how do we create that without it being a jarring experience, where it would be something they would potentially, if they did own a home, paint their home in these colors?

Sue Wadden (12:44.363)

us.

Sue Wadden (13:10.739)

Exactly.

Katie Decker-Erickson (13:11.184)

So that's the, I think it's a big challenge you all have in front of you. I am very happy to inherit your colors of the year and not be the decision maker behind them because I think it is challenging. And sometimes you have those, as people do become transient, you have those nostalgic feels. Like I was born and raised in Miami. I love a good fuchsia. I want to see a vibrant blue. I hear you, but you've relocated and are now going to school, say at ASU in Tempe. Like

Sue Wadden (13:19.201)

Hehehehehehe

Katie Decker-Erickson (13:39.222)

that might not be in the scope for you, but there's some sort of meaning. And I think that you both alluded to it, and I kinda wanna go this direction with it. The not right or wrong of color, but that it's a reflection. You aren't choosing the trends, you're reflecting the trends. And one thing we always tell our clients is, you just have to give us honest feedback. There's no right or wrong here, cause it's an emotive, it's almost like a visceral response. You either love it or you don't.

Sue Wadden (13:59.747)

Yes.

Katie Decker-Erickson (14:06.218)

And you can't explain why, but there's 100 million reasons that go into why someone does or does not like a color. Yeah, what would you say to that Sue?

Sue Wadden (14:13.174)

Agreed, and that's the thing. I just think as long as there's a point of view, right? We just have to take that design thinking and design methodology that designers, they just have it in their heads all the time. That's how we're trained. That's how we think. But translating that to a customer and saying, this is why we're recommending it and here's why. And I think that just gives that confidence to say, if you're willing to try something new, you can go in this direction. But if you wanna reflect kind of regionalism and where that's at, you can go in this direction.

Katie Decker-Erickson (14:21.364)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (14:34.593)

Yeah.

Sue Wadden (14:42.086)

And I think that's what will make things, you know, again, good for the client, good for designers, good for the manufacturers that are trying to support these businesses.

Katie Decker-Erickson (14:42.681)

Mmm. I love that.

Katie Decker-Erickson (14:54.486)

That makes complete sense. How does that feel to you, Ruth Ann?

Ruthanne Hanlon (14:58.288)

It does make a lot of sense. And I think it's important to note that when we first started doing it, we actually resisted doing a color of the year for many, many years, because we said, you can't pigeonhole that many people into one color. Yeah, so it's the complete palette, and I know Sue's team does a great job with their forecast. It's not just about the one color, but when you're doing death sides with media, they say, okay, that's great, just give us one color.

Katie Decker-Erickson (15:10.006)

Yeah, too tough. Sure.

Sue Wadden (15:12.354)

Yes, it's hard.

Ruthanne Hanlon (15:26.548)

So that's how we kind of caved and started doing a Color of the Year. And it's been interesting to watch the, how do I say, the personality of the Color of the Year, because it started with, oh, you know, this is exciting. Then it kind of turned into everyone's doing a Color of the Year. Now I'm seeing more people like ask what it is because they're painting something. And we like to look at the Color of the Year as just a conversation starter. It's just an overview of how we're feeling.

Sue Wadden (15:26.797)

right.

Sue Wadden (15:32.442)

Hehehe

Katie Decker-Erickson (15:47.895)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (15:53.618)

I like that.

Ruthanne Hanlon (15:54.768)

It's great if you want to use that color, but I will say with some of our colors of the year, while they were beautiful, they weren't applicable in every situation. So I've had some projects I've had, and but like I said, it's not for everything, and I've had to have some opportunities, right? I had to say, I appreciate that, but we're not going to use it on this project, because it doesn't make sense on that. Maybe we'll use a bit of it over here, but it has been interesting to watch.

Katie Decker-Erickson (16:03.462)

Love the honesty. Love that.

Sure.

Sue Wadden (16:17.803)

Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (16:21.936)

just the perception of color of the year and how it's changed over the years. And I think Sue would agree with me. We think it's great. If you want to paint your house color of the year every year, we'll get you paint every year, but it's more just tapping, especially for a designer resource, and to say this is where we're going. So I work a lot with builders, and they rely heavily on us for color direction. And so just having that, okay, we're shifting from warm. We're moving away from the cools and the grays and going here.

Katie Decker-Erickson (16:31.948)

Ha ha ha!

Sue Wadden (16:31.978)

Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (16:50.824)

Just having that information is what they look for. Now, do we have to finite it down to the specific color of the year? Not in most cases, but it's, yeah, there's just different ways to look at it and different reasons behind it.

Katie Decker-Erickson (17:06.27)

I like what you said, though. It's almost like color of the year is a guiding light. It's not intended to be used because I'm sitting here and I'm toggling back in my head as you're both talking. And I'm like, you know, I think, wasn't Urbane Bronze a color of the year while back, Sue? For you guys, it took me. And now I love that color, especially for more tired properties where maybe a tricorne black isn't going to do it, right? And it took me a couple of years to get on board. And then I'm like, oh, yeah, I vaguely recall. I think this was a color of the year. And some of that, I'm sure, is just delay and market delay.

Sue Wadden (17:19.166)

Yeah.

Sue Wadden (17:27.116)

Right.

Sue Wadden (17:34.062)

Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (17:36.784)

But using, that's a huge relief to hear from you guys that we don't have to use that color. It's just meant to be a beacon of this is what is going on out here and what I love about sitting here at this round table and having this conversation is realizing how much more is going on beyond just this simplified sound bite, for lack of a better term, that is color of the year. I wanna talk about gray. You alluded to it, Ruthanne.

Ruthanne Hanlon (18:03.253)

Do we have to?

Katie Decker-Erickson (18:04.874)

I know that's why I want to talk about it because I have this like innate need to be validated that we are finally done with gray. I feel like gray, once again we're talking about market indicators leading color of the year. We all know gray was really born out of the 08 recession, right? Like 08 recession, everything came gray. I mean, heaven help, it was floors, walls, ceilings, I mean every, it was ombre gray everywhere. Are we done with it? Somebody please tell me we're done with it.

Sue Wadden (18:05.391)

Sure.

Ruthanne Hanlon (18:21.884)

Yep, that's exactly where, yep.

Sue Wadden (18:30.21)

Yes. We, so yeah, I would say that, but I would say this. Don't get too excited, Katie. I just, I am, I am. We, we.

Ruthanne Hanlon (18:33.44)

I'm gonna say yes.

Katie Decker-Erickson (18:35.126)

Yes. Oh, we're two for two. But there's a caveat.

Ruthanne Hanlon (18:42.821)

Sue, just let's just leave it there. Let's just leave it there.

Katie Decker-Erickson (18:45.194)

Yeah, I was happy with the period, so we didn't have to put in the comma.

Sue Wadden (18:50.042)

So upward is a teeny tiny nod to a little bit of what's coming out of Europe in that it's like a silvery lightness, like a metallic. And I think it's an indicator of where maybe hardware and lighting trends are going to start to shift. So we've seen this darkness, we've seen black, we've seen gold, and it's natural after five or six years of that cycle to start to see a balance point. And so a silvery metallic maybe is going to start climbing back in.

Katie Decker-Erickson (19:01.281)

Cool.

Sue Wadden (19:19.222)

But I just would say this, it's an inflection point. It is a balance. It's not gonna become what gray was from 2010 to 2020. That is done. It is warmth. There is too much natural wood in all of our furnishings and all the things that we're designing with, both commercially and residential, to go totally gray. I just think that's, it may happen in five years, but for now, we're good.

Katie Decker-Erickson (19:22.435)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (19:45.894)

I think that's a great perspective, Ruth Ann. Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (19:46.168)

I would agree. You know, I would absolutely agree. We've been in the gray-ge phase for the past few years. But again, it's, I don't wanna say regional, but if you haven't built a home or remodeled in the past six or seven years, you start doing research. And what's the hottest colors? Well, you're gonna see all these articles on gray because they're not linked chronologically. And so that's a conversation I have a lot, especially if it's commercial properties. And you have to say, yeah, it was very popular, but that article is eight years old.

Katie Decker-Erickson (19:52.769)

Mm-hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (20:07.798)

Yep.

Ruthanne Hanlon (20:15.7)

So, and I'm gonna put this on record and say this, I'm gonna say the B word, we are moving, we're going to beige. Whether we're, and I see your face, whether excited about that or not. But I always, I tell people, we were just talking about this last night in an industry event, it's not gonna be the beige we had in the 80s. It's with the seafoams and the moths. Right. You didn't have to say, now I have a visual in my head I didn't need. Thank you, Katie.

Katie Decker-Erickson (20:35.054)

No, the graham cracker where it literally looked like you mashed up a graham cracker and glued it to your wall. Yeah, we've all been there. I'm so sorry, Ruthanne.

Sue Wadden (20:40.41)

Totally. Yes.

Heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Ruthanne Hanlon (20:45.853)

But coming back, and a lot of that beige is more the taupe with the red undertones. I think this is going to be more neutral beige. And we're going to see it with the blues aren't going anywhere, especially those muted kind of smoky ones that's beautiful with beige with some white trim, maybe a deep urbane bronze or an onyx sort of anchor it. That's a fresh looking palette. So it's the color we had from the past, but used differently.

Katie Decker-Erickson (20:51.329)

Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (21:10.536)

So it's a conversation I've been having for three or four years. I think those who specify color, we can all speak to this. We were done with gray seven or eight years ago. It's just you're inundated with it. Yes, it took a while for it to trickle down. It was depressing. Same, and what's sad is now it looks dated and you think of all these bigger projects. And I remember four or five years ago, it's just a big national chain saying, please don't use gray.

Katie Decker-Erickson (21:10.85)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (21:18.222)

Preach. Oh, preach. Yes. It was so intense for so long that I'm just, I have kind of a gag reflex about it now.

Sue Wadden (21:18.49)

completely. Yep.

Sue Wadden (21:24.435)

Oh man.

Sue Wadden (21:30.862)

does.

Ruthanne Hanlon (21:37.256)

And again, from a paint company, all right, let's paint it gray, because we're gonna be changing it in three years, but we don't want to do that to them. But my indicator was, aside from everything else we've been seeing, I had a rep two weeks ago who was like, there's no way gray or beige is coming back. And I got a text from him saying, okay, what's our true is beige. I thought it happened. Because his customer was asking for it. So, yep, and he's like, he said, I will never doubt you again.

Sue Wadden (21:57.626)

Completely. It does. It does. Yes. Yep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (21:57.67)

Yeah. If we converted him, the market has shifted. Well, and I think. Yeah, you know what you're doing. This is a good thing. No, and I think to the intensity level, you know, some of those grays got super deep. We got into charcoals and we got into, but I feel like everything is throttling up.

Ruthanne Hanlon (22:07.402)

Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (22:11.822)

Mm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (22:17.374)

kind of what you mentioned, Sue, almost like a metallic blue. And like back to Ruth Ann's word of just kind of a dusty. But it's getting so I feel like we had such stark contrasts of white on gray and black and almost that farmhouse motif for a while. And I feel like everything is just calming down to a softer palette where we're going to have these more sophisticated tones and more warmth. To your point, Sue, about furniture and the wood tones that we're seeing, which gets us back to the beige, Ruth Ann.

It's going to be interesting to see how it all melts together.

Sue Wadden (22:48.835)

I think it's.

Katie, I think it's gonna be, so we'll go like a little macro here and sociopolitical. Interest rates are high, the world's on fire, all these crazy inputs are coming in. And so there'll be high highs and low lows. So that high stark contrast is probably gonna continue because we are living in sort of this black and white space. If it's not one thing, it's the other. So that may, those like...

Katie Decker-Erickson (22:56.586)

Yeah, please do. Yep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (23:10.846)

Interesting. Yep.

Sue Wadden (23:15.774)

that contrast may stick around. I think what we're just gonna see is people that are exhausted by that will move towards this like natural, much more refined, soothing, like all the buzzwords that we love when describing color. I think there's gonna be one side and then the other. And people will kind of decide where they fit with it.

Katie Decker-Erickson (23:26.974)

Uh, yep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (23:32.182)

Hmm. It's exactly like our political climate right now. There's one side and the other. It's interesting the reflection that we're seeing in color to that.

Sue Wadden (23:36.154)

100%.

Ruthanne Hanlon (23:37.937)

Exactly.

Sue Wadden (23:43.478)

And like, I don't want to, right, like we don't want to talk about aggressive colors. We don't want to make them, you know, well, but reds and pinks and warm, warm colors are rising because of this like kind of turmoil, right? I mean, we haven't talked about red in an appreciable way in, I don't know, since the nineties, late nineties, early two thousands. Yeah. And now it's starting to like creep.

Ruthanne Hanlon (23:43.534)

And you're exactly right.

Katie Decker-Erickson (23:49.548)

Mmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (23:56.474)

Mm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (24:01.79)

No, front doors, all the front doors. Yep, yep.

Ruthanne Hanlon (24:06.176)

Yep. And all the dining rooms and kitchens. Yep.

Sue Wadden (24:09.954)

back up again. So I think that's just, it's the cycle, right? It's fun to track this cycle. It's important for designers because they need to be the oracles for these projects. But these are good stories to tell.

Katie Decker-Erickson (24:17.848)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (24:22.454)

Ruthanne, are you seeing red in yours and warmer tones? Because I want to segue into like what I know y'all don't have a crystal ball and I'm not going to hold your feet to the flames on this, but what is coming down the pike? Like what do you see in knowing that next year we hope to do this exact same conversation about the 2025 color of the year. But what do you think is coming down the pike for us, given that it is an unprecedented time in that we have all the global turmoil that we have, we have all the economic, there's just so many conflicting indicators.

Ruthanne Hanlon (24:22.783)

I agree.

Ruthanne Hanlon (24:29.72)

Oh no, we do. We do. And through here.

Sue Wadden (24:30.203)

Thank you.

Katie Decker-Erickson (24:52.828)

of, well, inflation's up, but how do we still have 8% interest rates? And I feel like there's just so much confusion around so many things because we do have access to all this information at once. How does that sort itself out in the future of Color Ruthie?

Ruthanne Hanlon (24:53.012)

Yeah, and next year's gonna be really messy.

Ruthanne Hanlon (25:08.128)

So two things, one, because of all that, we're still gonna be craving those quiet, retreating colors. It's a way to take a break. There's a lot of noise in our world, whether it's our devices that are constantly alerting us or you go out in public and there's stuff or the news or whatnot. And it's 24-7. There's no more turning off at six o'clock and just having your life. So.

Katie Decker-Erickson (25:19.746)

for sure.

Ruthanne Hanlon (25:33.62)

That leads us to craving these quiet spaces where we can just decompress and almost creating these sanctuaries. But I am seeing, and still you had a great point with the reds coming back, it has been a while since reds have been trending, but I've had several builders across the country wanting to introduce, because all the packages were grays, grayses leaning into beige, and now they're saying, okay, we wanna introduce a red, or we need a yellow, or we wanna do a terracotta. And the first time it happened,

Katie Decker-Erickson (25:40.29)

Hmm. I like that term.

Sue Wadden (25:55.107)

Yes.

Katie Decker-Erickson (26:01.467)

I love terracotta.

Ruthanne Hanlon (26:01.792)

I thought someone was playing a joke on me, but now I'm having more and more of them. So I do think those are gonna come back. Are they gonna take over like Grey did? Probably not, but they're still very important and they have their place. And don't get us wrong, we're not saying that Grey is completely gone. Grey will never go away. It's a classic neutral. It will always have its place, but to just be just overly saturated with it, no pun intended.

Sue Wadden (26:03.514)

too.

Katie Decker-Erickson (26:12.458)

rape.

Katie Decker-Erickson (26:15.817)

limit.

Katie Decker-Erickson (26:20.264)

No.

Ruthanne Hanlon (26:29.556)

We've we've just had enough of that. So it'll still have a place. So those of you listening that love gray, that's great Um, and it still works. Yep. Exactly. It's yeah, but as far as the

Sue Wadden (26:35.836)

Keep loving Grey, it's okay. Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (26:39.423)

You have our permission. Well, and I think too, it comes down to the intensity of the gray too. As we come up in palettes and we've gone to more, we see more of the white black contrast, even having a Scotia of gray or a white with a grayish undertone.

Sue Wadden (26:40.971)

Yes, keep going.

Katie Decker-Erickson (26:56.546)

thinking of like an Argos or even like a knitting needle or something like that, like where you just start to see these little odes too, but it's not like we're painting our walls in dominant gray, you know? And I think it's interesting too, there's, ooh, I like that. I really like that because you have to have that just like a good glass of wine. You've got to have a neutral. So when you bring in that red, it's like that is stunning and beautiful. Yeah.

Sue Wadden (26:57.012)

beautiful.

Ruthanne Hanlon (27:07.972)

Right. It's almost like a, it can be a palate cleanser too.

Sue Wadden (27:12.39)

Yes.

Ruthanne Hanlon (27:16.456)

Yep. There you go.

or Merlot or Burgundy. Yeah.

Sue Wadden (27:22.934)

Yes, yes, yep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (27:25.458)

It gets really fun at that point. Talk to us about color of the year and how it's different for a designer than it is for a consumer. And how do I, as a designer, listening to this webcast, if I have a client coming to me and going, I want all gray, but I want something trendy, and you're like, well, which do you really want? How do we work through all of those tensions between the consumer and the designer world when it comes to the topic of color? Sue?

Sue Wadden (27:53.354)

Yeah, that's a tension point a little bit for us. Sorry about that. Because for homeowners, we want to give them the confidence to say color of the year is the color we believe is the thing you should try. Here's how you should use it. Here's some of the styling that you could consider. And using it as a resource. But for designers, we want it to be like, this is what's coming, sort of the indicator, right? The oracle of what they should expect to see.

Katie Decker-Erickson (27:56.639)

Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (28:19.924)

Mm-hmm.

Sue Wadden (28:21.646)

And so like you toggle that line when messaging that. And so, you know, like that's always like difficult. That's why we have our forecast because the forecast is really for designers. And the color of the year is taking that forecast and pulling one thing out that consumers can get behind. So that's like kind of our, yes, exactly, it's not so overwhelming.

Katie Decker-Erickson (28:26.964)

Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (28:40.098)

bite-sized piece.

Katie Decker-Erickson (28:45.558)

That's a great answer to that question. How about you guys, Ruth? How does PPG approach that?

Ruthanne Hanlon (28:51.968)

I would agree. I think designers look to it as just the overarching theme of it. It might not be the specific color. So like this direction, going warmer, more comforting, organic hues, that gives you a really big broadcast of, okay, so we're probably bringing more natural wood and authentic materials and getting away from mass produced and those cooler tones where we've been.

Katie Decker-Erickson (28:59.702)

Hmm. Yep.

Ruthanne Hanlon (29:18.696)

where for homeowners or consumers, it might be, maybe it's not your wall color, but you're gonna be seeing this on throw pillows at the big box stores, or it's gonna be accents or accessories or the hot color on Instagram. And just like I said earlier, it's more of just a conversation starter, but it is nice to kind of give a heads up to what's coming. And it depends on the segment as well. Designers know, they're already aware of where things going. But think of the average builder or, you know,

Katie Decker-Erickson (29:35.63)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (29:47.665)

Oh.

Ruthanne Hanlon (29:47.856)

apartment community manager, they're not paying attention to all that and why should they? So they're more looking to us for direction on that. So that's where we can come in and say, you know, maybe it's not our color of the year, but we need to use something warmer because that's going to resonate with consumers based on how they're feeling. So it's an excellent question because different users of it are going to have a different appreciation for it and a different need for it as well, if that makes sense.

Katie Decker-Erickson (29:53.453)

Sure.

Sue Wadden (30:12.566)

And Katie, you alluded to it too in Urbane Bronze when you referenced that. You were like, oh gosh, I kinda wanna use a black on this project. What could I do? Oh, well wait, I remember that color. So if a designer has a consideration for something new, then we're winning because like that's also part of it. I could say that we could have selected a color called Krypton, which is very close to upward, but it's a little more gray and it's a really popular color.

Katie Decker-Erickson (30:13.226)

So, yeah. Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (30:23.164)

Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (30:27.195)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (30:34.935)

Mm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (30:38.806)

Mm-hmm.

Sue Wadden (30:40.874)

that would have been an easy direction. People already know that color, but in selecting something a little different, it gives just like, like it's something new. So I like that part of it as well.

Katie Decker-Erickson (30:44.823)

Sure.

Katie Decker-Erickson (30:50.858)

So do we expect colors? I think we have to, right? Like, and do we expect those colors because they are fresh and new, do you as choosers expect them to last well beyond that specific year? Or what kind of durability are you looking out of color of the year? Two years? Sue's holding up two fingers, two years? Okay, so you want them, so if, yeah. Definitely two, Ruth Ann.

Ruthanne Hanlon (30:50.94)

And I think they do look for fresh and new in the color of the year.

Sue Wadden (31:10.178)

Yeah, for me.

Ruthanne Hanlon (31:10.4)

We're at least to, the overall forecast is more like five to seven. But it's going to change based on the economy. When things are great, we spend money, we take chances, we replace things. When they're not so great, that's why Gray lasted as long as it did. There was a horrible recession. And we went to Gray because it was safe. And we stayed with it for a very long time. Because remember, like, it started to get better and we were going to duck our heads up. Then we're like, nope, we're staying back here. We're not ready.

Sue Wadden (31:18.36)

Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (31:18.454)

Okay.

Ruthanne Hanlon (31:40.092)

So that's in part why it lasted so long. But what I really enjoy seeing is how the colors morph and change. So like last year, our color of the year was Vinyi Nivy, which was a greenish, bluish, in-betweenish. And this year, it's in the forecast, but it's a little bit darker and a little bit more vibrant. So the story continues, but it has a slight change to it. And in looking back, as a matter of fact, none of us on the global team even saw this. Limitless was in one of our beauty shots.

Katie Decker-Erickson (31:43.508)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (31:48.356)

Uh...

Katie Decker-Erickson (31:53.964)

Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (31:57.706)

Ugh.

Ruthanne Hanlon (32:08.712)

for the color of the year last year. And we didn't notice it until we started putting the CEU together and we were like, the indicators were there. It was just finding it. So yeah, I think Sue's right. Maybe two or three years for the actual color of the year, but at least five to seven years right now for the overall forecast.

Katie Decker-Erickson (32:11.026)

Oh, interesting.

Sue Wadden (32:16.601)

Right.

Katie Decker-Erickson (32:26.51)

I love that. And that gives us the freedom as designers to come back to those colors of the year. Like when I can lean into urbane bronze and go, oh, it's okay, you can do that. It's nice to have the validation and freedom to be able to do that. Say that again, Ruth Ann. Right? It's a great color. I mean.

Ruthanne Hanlon (32:37.084)

It's a fantastic color and I can say that. I love her main bronze. It's fantastic, it's earthy, it's dark, it's character. It's no offense, I have to give our equivalent but I get asked about it all the time because it's a really great color.

Sue Wadden (32:39.566)

Yeah.

Sue Wadden (32:44.378)

Well, thank you. Yeah, it's a good, it's just complex.

Sue Wadden (32:51.47)

It's.

Sue Wadden (32:56.394)

Yeah, it's a good color. It's a good color.

Katie Decker-Erickson (32:56.642)

Ha ha ha!

Katie Decker-Erickson (33:00.526)

Let me ask you guys for your surprise points in putting together the color of the year. I think red definitely coming back is one that's surprising to me. What's coming down the pike that you think we're gonna find surprising even potentially as designers, but for sure on the commercial side, that when designers are getting hit with this from clients, they shouldn't be caught flat-footed by it. Get ready, you're probably going to see X, Y, or Z. What would you fill in the gap with?

Sue Wadden (33:27.706)

Who wants to go first?

Katie Decker-Erickson (33:28.206)

Go ahead, Ruthie, end. Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (33:29.156)

Yeah, go ahead Sue.

Katie Decker-Erickson (33:32.278)

I love how nice everybody is on this round table. I love people that know each other's colors and validate and oh, it's such a lovely group of humans.

Sue Wadden (33:34.317)

So.

Sue Wadden (33:38.654)

It's awesome. It's a very nice, happy space. But I will say this, and purple confounds me. It is a color that I struggle with. It's like I'm a warm, warm color person for sure. Dark colors. I like, I migrate towards those. And so when I read about the digital space and the metaverse and how color is being infused with this blue undertone, because we're seeing it through a screen and there's blue light and all these blue, blue.

Katie Decker-Erickson (33:43.115)

Right?

Katie Decker-Erickson (33:48.406)

Yes.

Sue Wadden (34:05.978)

Purple is an important color. And so I just have to figure out the right way to communicate that out because it's difficult to bring into interiors. But.

Katie Decker-Erickson (34:09.638)

Mmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (34:14.654)

So when you figure that out Sue, would you please let me know because I feel the exact same struggle. I'm not like, oh, that's the killer purple. That's our go-to purple that crushes it every time. Nope, nope, can't really say I love purple, especially on an exterior, because it never, one year later, I'm like, well, what color is that?

Sue Wadden (34:24.103)

Ugh, it's rough. It's rough.

Yes, it is. Right. And so my answer to that is taupe, right? Taupe is the answer. Taupe is the application forward purple derivative. It's neutral, but it's got those cooler undertones, warm, cool. So that's my answer for purple. But I'm curious. What, Ruthann, what are you thinking?

Katie Decker-Erickson (34:39.281)

Mm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (34:43.664)

Interesting.

Ruthanne Hanlon (34:48.64)

I'm like doing jumping jacks inside, because I was going to say purple as well. But I'm thinking more of the really deep aubergine. So it's not going to be an all-over color for every space, but gorgeous on a feature wall or a front door. Now, are we going to see an automotive? Maybe. Wouldn't it be a great cell phone color or even small appliances? Yeah, but think.

Katie Decker-Erickson (34:50.47)

Hahaha

Katie Decker-Erickson (34:54.114)

Okay.

Katie Decker-Erickson (35:08.61)

Mm-hmm.

Sue Wadden (35:13.058)

Oh, it'd be a beautiful color. Yeah, oh yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (35:15.)

that very deep, almost eggplant aubergine. You know, and so it has a little bit of mystery to it. It's dark and protective. You know, it's a little bit on the retreating side, but it has that inner warmth to it. I am, and it was what, trying to think when I had my bedroom painted that color. So it was 20 years ago. It was, it wasn't an all over color, but it was being used a lot. Right, right. And it seems to be that 20 year mark is what we're seeing with the cyclical and then.

Katie Decker-Erickson (35:16.098)

That would be fun.

Katie Decker-Erickson (35:20.45)

Yep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (35:30.036)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (35:37.136)

I was going to say, I feel like everything runs a 20 year life cycle.

Sue Wadden (35:41.196)

Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (35:43.72)

Like look when avocado came back, we call it guacamole, but it was the same color and used with different palates. Or look at, I think dark brown is a perfect example. It was huge in the 60s and 70s, and then it went away and we made fun of it. And then it came back after 9-11 when we needed grounding and comforting. And it was around for at least 10 years. And remember it was with chocolate and pink, then it went to chocolate and blue, and now that's coming back because of biophilia.

Katie Decker-Erickson (35:46.391)

Mm-hmm.

Sue Wadden (35:50.882)

Right.

Katie Decker-Erickson (35:57.762)

Hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (36:09.343)

Yeah.

Sue Wadden (36:12.76)

Yes.

Ruthanne Hanlon (36:13.417)

and our neat connect. But yeah, I'm with you Sue, but I'm gonna go darker. I'm gonna go darker with more eggplants.

Sue Wadden (36:15.723)

It is.

Sue Wadden (36:21.014)

Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (36:21.896)

So Katie, your next project, we fully expect to see purples on it.

Katie Decker-Erickson (36:23.684)

That could be a really fabulous color.

Sue Wadden (36:27.878)

I know. Purples.

Katie Decker-Erickson (36:28.974)

We just have to get client approval. You know, that's it. Just client approval. Front doors maybe. Well, and that's what's hard is I don't feel like outside of Mardi Gras, there's not really a holiday associated with purple either. I feel like you can put Navy on a front door. It looks great, right? That's great. You've got Hanukkah. It can go great with red and green at Christmas. Like there's a hundred different ways. But purple is just like, what do you do with that outside? I mean, don't get me wrong. I love Mardi Gras. But what do you do with it outside of Mardi Gras?

Ruthanne Hanlon (36:32.032)

Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Sue Wadden (36:33.446)

Yes.

Ruthanne Hanlon (36:57.064)

But maybe that's why it's appealing, because it's not something that is expected.

Katie Decker-Erickson (36:57.648)

It's a toughy. It's a really tough color.

Sue Wadden (36:59.274)

It's like a

well.

Katie Decker-Erickson (37:04.86)

Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Sue Wadden (37:06.754)

I would say like in the French country vernacular, right? On the residential side, it is a beautiful front door color. So if you have that sort of cottagey vibe or a soft blue, it's beautiful. But again, it's not, it's not for everyone. It's hard to execute sometimes for specifically a commercial. I'm sure there are people will argue with us for sure that love to use it, but I would love to hear from them.

Katie Decker-Erickson (37:09.9)

Hmm.

Ruthanne Hanlon (37:11.165)

Yep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (37:15.292)

Yep.

Ruthanne Hanlon (37:25.984)

Right. But, and yeah, again, not, yes, nothing is for everywhere, but think even like arts and crafts with a very dusty neutral green with a soft off-white trim. That's a palette I actually specify quite a bit. Our color gooseberry or purple basil is that dark eggplant and it looks great with a grage or with that historic muted green and you know has that feel to it. So you know it's a little bit nostalgic as well, but depending on how it's utilized, you know, it can look fresh.

Katie Decker-Erickson (37:31.659)

Yeah, me too.

Katie Decker-Erickson (37:35.467)

Hmm.

Sue Wadden (37:35.677)

Yeah, deep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (37:40.009)

Yeah.

Sue Wadden (37:51.275)

beautiful.

Katie Decker-Erickson (37:55.142)

Mm-hmm.

Ruthanne Hanlon (37:55.888)

I just think it's different. We've run, and blues and greens aren't going away, but those, it's like, of course it's blues and greens. That's where we are, and it's, I don't know, maybe the eggplant is just different. And I don't know, so do you think we're ready for a red-red? I think dark purple seems a safer gateway color to jump into more saturated hue.

Katie Decker-Erickson (38:03.388)

No.

Sue Wadden (38:18.478)

gas.

Sue Wadden (38:22.038)

100%. Like red, little touches, little pops, little Barbie moments, right, if you will, from what we saw this summer. But it's not, we are, North Americans are very puritanical in their colors. We like a little, like a pretty timeless range and we don't get, we don't get too dramatic. So I feel like that's just going to continue, especially in kind of the environment that we're going to be designing in for the next couple of years.

Katie Decker-Erickson (38:27.092)

Yeah.

Love that term.

Katie Decker-Erickson (38:37.514)

Mm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (38:42.978)

Hmm.

Ruthanne Hanlon (38:49.184)

Yeah, just keep playing it safe. And next year is going to be very interesting. So here in North America. So I think it's going to be interesting to watch the consumer moods and mindsets.

Katie Decker-Erickson (38:51.574)

Well, one thing too is.

Sue Wadden (38:55.8)

Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (39:03.45)

Tell me more about why Ruthann, I want to go down that path and then we'll circle back. Yeah, I feel like for the first time after, you know, we had the 80s that was predictable. I feel like, you know, you even get to the 08 recession. That seemed very predictable and in many regards, right?

Ruthanne Hanlon (39:03.72)

just the whole political climate and yeah. It's.

Katie Decker-Erickson (39:23.654)

And there's just so many factors right now. And there's so many hotspots globally that I feel like people are just, we have friends who've canceled vacations are like, we just don't wanna travel right now. Like we wanna be at home. We don't feel ready to do that and go somewhere abroad and right, possibly end up there. Not just Middle East, but just really anywhere and think, wow, we could be stuck there. And I think all of that.

Ruthanne Hanlon (39:35.766)

Yeah. Where you feel safe, yeah. Yep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (39:47.678)

whether it's subconscious, which I think is the majority of it, sometimes it's conscious when you do cancel those vacation plans. But all of that is going to manifest as we move forward in our choosing of color of the year. What becomes that neutral? What becomes that accent color that becomes a go to? I don't know, a lot of projects, regardless of geography even, or trends or architecture. And I think it is an unknown. For the first time, I think we can, I think COVID, at least, especially for me, jarred us into the reality of things

can happen we have no control over. There's a lot of unknown. And so then when you start seeing things that aren't coming out of right field like the geopolitical climate and then you feel that it just makes you more reticent, I think might be the word reticent to jump into maybe say that

gutsy red color. It's like, no, I don't have the emotional bandwidth for that. I'd like to come back to an uplifting blue, or really timeless beige that's calming and soothing. That's emotionally where I feel safe.

Sue Wadden (40:40.94)

Yeah.

Sue Wadden (40:50.134)

Right, and again, it's like risk versus where your mindset is at. So I think that's just dependent on each person, each project, each program. You know, I think that's where this idea of like customization is really going to be interesting to track because there's always noise, right? It's just, it's because of social media, because of our global connections, because of who we are. Thank you, internet, right? Like we just see everything all the time now. Um, and so.

Katie Decker-Erickson (41:05.263)

Mm-hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (41:11.518)

Mm hmm. We do.

Ruthanne Hanlon (41:16.156)

whether we want to or not. Yeah.

Sue Wadden (41:19.986)

Yeah, like moderating that is really going to become a personal decision. You know, like, OK, I choose to shut it off or I choose to like get in and see all the things all the time. So it's a challenge, but also like a great challenge for color because we have just we're able to tell so many stories. All the time now, it's not just one thing.

Katie Decker-Erickson (41:21.168)

So true.

Katie Decker-Erickson (41:25.571)

Mmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (41:38.478)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, nor can it be. Yeah, the idea of a simple world where information is linear. And I was even reminiscing with my neighbor yesterday. I was like, remember back in the old days when you just got your news on Fridays when you went out to see a movie and they played it before the movie? And it was like, you were two weeks behind on the war because that's when the real made it to your theater. I'm like, I'm not sure emotionally I'm any better off today than they were then, nor can I control it, right?

Ruthanne Hanlon (42:03.165)

Okay.

Katie Decker-Erickson (42:12.286)

little old me, like not controlling what happens in the Middle East right now. They don't care, thankfully. And yeah, it's just kind of an interesting, it's going to be interesting to see if people to your point to dive in headlong, want all the information, want to sort it all out, want to have their voice heard. Um, and because of social media, everyone has a platform. So there's just, I feel like a lot of yelling going on in an echo chamber about so many things. Everyone finds their own echo chamber where everyone agrees with them. And then they just keep yelling louder and louder at each other. Um, and so it's going to be interesting to see if people go that way.

Sue Wadden (42:12.953)

Right.

Katie Decker-Erickson (42:42.621)

or if there's people and this is where I tend to more hang out, I would just say, thank you, but no, thank you. I have enough over here.

We're just gonna shut it all out, because I can't change it. I'm gonna draw my circle around my sphere of influence. It's very small. It's about one foot radius around my big toe. And that's where I'm gonna hang out, because that's what I can control. And I think it will be interesting to see how color of the year next year, which way does it go? Because I think you're gonna find people in those two camps. Kind of what you were saying to about, we'll always have the highs and the lows, but you're gonna start seeing this more subdued, sophisticated as we just, people tend to polarize in yet another area, which is also kind of sad in a way.

Sue Wadden (43:00.494)

Hehehe

Sue Wadden (43:17.974)

Yeah. So thank you, Katie, for stressing me out, because we're going to have to start making those decisions pretty soon.

Katie Decker-Erickson (43:22.966)

I'm so sorry. You just released Color of the Year for 2024, but we are looking at 2025. It is an interesting conversation. I don't want to stress you guys out. I know that's why I wanted to have you guys on the show because I wanted to hear how do they do this when there's so many variables? It's not two or three or what did Architectural Digest or whatever have to say about something.

Ruthanne Hanlon (43:23.049)

Yep. We got three months.

Sue Wadden (43:32.622)

like, twitching.

Katie Decker-Erickson (43:49.97)

It's now a sea of information to sort through, which is why I appreciate you guys' time more than anything in the world. One last final question I have for each of you that I have been curious to know. Would you have chosen this color of the year or do you have a different color of the year in the back of your head that is a spin-off or take-off that you wanna put in your own home?

Ruthanne Hanlon (44:12.464)

It was good. So no, I have a very clear backup and it was actually a very strong runner up at our global meeting when we were putting this together. And it was a really dark aubergine. And there was a variety of reasons why it was chosen. But again, is that gonna work in automotive? Is that a color that goes across all the segments globally? Cause you also have to take in...

Sue Wadden (44:14.422)

Ruthanne, you have to take this one first. I'm thinking, I'm thinking out loud here.

Katie Decker-Erickson (44:14.514)

I know, this is hard. Sue needs some time over here, yeah Ruth Ann.

Katie Decker-Erickson (44:27.101)

Okay.

Katie Decker-Erickson (44:33.031)

It was.

Sue Wadden (44:33.158)

pretty.

Ruthanne Hanlon (44:40.556)

how different cultures look at colors. And, you know, like black means one thing here, but it's a different thing in Asia. So, you know, playing into all that. But the way we landed on Limitless was our moderator who's fantastic. We had our three design boards up with all the palace bridge story, and she didn't say a word, and she looked at us and she pulled Limitless off. It was in all three of the stories, which we had never had happen before. And we all went, oh. Like the color of the year picked itself.

Katie Decker-Erickson (44:45.41)

Absolutely.

Sue Wadden (45:07.962)

Yeah, that's how you know. Yep. Yes.

Katie Decker-Erickson (45:08.475)

Interesting.

Ruthanne Hanlon (45:09.052)

Like it was right there. It just took her pointing it out. So, but as soon as she said it, we're like, oh, it makes sense. It's the warmth, it's the optimism. It's soft, it's quiet, it's comforting. If you follow the shock reds, self-confidence and authenticity, so it ticked all the boxes. Would I use it in my house? And the only reason I would say probably not is because I had it 18, 20 years ago when it was popular with the reds and the sage greens. Remember that phase? It was, yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (45:15.328)

Mmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (45:19.212)

Yeah.

Sue Wadden (45:24.226)

Oh shoot, I froze up guys. Can you hear me?

Katie Decker-Erickson (45:26.95)

Yep.

Sue Wadden (45:32.238)

Can you guys hear me?

Katie Decker-Erickson (45:37.308)

Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (45:39.056)

Um, so, but, but I love. Yes. Um, so yeah, I, I do. Yeah. I love, I love looking at it, but also I'm just not ready to paint right now. My life is crazy and we're not, we're not doing that, but, oh, it's, I would love to.

Katie Decker-Erickson (45:41.366)

Uh, Sage green and cranberry for the nineties win. Yep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (45:57.088)

I love your honesty about that in every single sense. In case anyone wants to check it out, what would be, can you give us the color number just so we can go look at it? I think it'd be fun to see because you've talked about it so much.

Ruthanne Hanlon (46:07.092)

Oh yeah, absolutely. So you can just go to ppgpaints.com and it's on our homepage. It'll say color of the year. It is limitless. Oh my gosh, I should know that 1091-3. I'm sorry. Oh. Well, I'm between gooseberry and purple basil, which are both a deep orange green.

Katie Decker-Erickson (46:16.938)

I'm sorry, I meant the aubergine. Your backup. Your backup one. Do you remember?

OK, we're going to go spray. OK, and purple basil. We're going to take a look at both of those, because I think it's super duper fun to be able to see what the backup is. And it's always good, my gosh, to try to have a backup and see. You know what? I have a feeling that Limeless and these two colors would pair really, really well together. Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (46:44.616)

Yes, yes. And you will see those deep abberages. Our purple basil is in the palates and the trend forecast for 2024. So it's in there. It's just in the final cut, yes.

Katie Decker-Erickson (00:00.774)

Okay, so same question runner up choice that nobody's going to know unless they're listening to this webcast podcast

Sue Wadden (00:08.224)

So we had talked a lot about browns, but I felt like it was too close on the heels of urbane bronze. Like that would have just annoyed people if I was like, oh, but also we want like a nut brown as our color of the year. So, and we had a warm color with red and point, which was a sort of that like baked earth terracotta. So I think, I think, you know, I'm very curious about browns.

Katie Decker-Erickson (00:12.174)

Mm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (00:16.476)

Mm-hmm.

Sue Wadden (00:34.284)

and what their place is going to be in design. So that's maybe something that we're going to pay attention to. But what I would say, like what I put upward in my house, so I have a funny story about blue. I. I swear that there is some entity living in my house that will not allow me to put blue in this place. Like everybody loves blue, but not my house. I've tried to put it in hallways or bedrooms or areas around the house, and it just does not work. I don't know if we just have.

Katie Decker-Erickson (00:37.194)

Mm-hmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (00:52.994)

That's funny.

Sue Wadden (01:01.556)

too much Northern light. I don't know what it is, but it cracks me up because I feel bad, like poor blue, right? What did it ever do to me? And I just can't.

Katie Decker-Erickson (01:07.874)

blue. And if you if you really if you knew Sue, how many times have you painted your dining room Sue?

Sue Wadden (01:14.968)

On million, one million times I painted rooms in this house and I cannot, cannot get blue in here. I think there's like the ghost of somebody in this house that does not like blue and tells me that all the time. Is that funny? So that is to say.

Katie Decker-Erickson (01:17.958)

Literally, I was gonna say.

Ruthanne Hanlon (01:22.131)

Yeah

Katie Decker-Erickson (01:29.262)

I think it's real.

Ruthanne Hanlon (01:29.667)

I had the opposite happen. I was never a fan of blue, but had painted my bedroom a million times. And we were actually, oh my God, this goes back. Remember the decorative painting, the faux finishing? Anyway, we were doing a photo shoot and for a brochure. And so I just used my space because it was easier. And one of the last things we changed it to was a smoky blue and this like metallic Venetian plaster. And I literally went, oh my God. And I'm like, it changed it to that. And it's been that for...

Sue Wadden (01:41.165)

Yes. Hehehehe, yes.

Katie Decker-Erickson (01:42.236)

Yes.

Katie Decker-Erickson (01:51.403)

Mm.

Sue Wadden (01:51.442)

Oh yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (01:58.483)

When did folk finishing go out? 15 years ago. And I love it. Like it's the only blue. Yeah, but it's, you know, it's kind of shimmery and it's, you know, it's yeah, like metallic plaster. But I would have never, you would have never got blue in my house prior to actually seeing it go up. So maybe I can have my house talk to your house and then you can get some blue.

Sue Wadden (02:00.32)

Oh gosh, yeah, right. And it's beautiful.

Katie Decker-Erickson (02:01.908)

It's still there.

Sue Wadden (02:08.244)

Beautiful.

Katie Decker-Erickson (02:09.229)

pretty.

Sue Wadden (02:16.744)

Yeah, it's so funny and the whole world loves blue. I love seeing it in everybody else's homes, but in my house, it just doesn't work. It's funny.

Katie Decker-Erickson (02:28.182)

Okay, so I lied. I have one more question for you ladies because this is my problem in that I live in the world of color all day. So what ends up happening is like, it's very little color in my house. We have great backdrops and our designer, Diana does a fabulous job. She's in the middle of recreating our backdrop, which hopefully we'll have ready in the next week or two. But consequently, other than that, I don't do color, which is why I'm always in black.

In fact, our producer, our fabulous producer, Leah and I had this conversation. I'm like, Leah, can I just, black. It's my go-to. I have a capsule wardrobe. It's called Black. Any piece in black. That is my capsule wardrobe. Occasionally you'll find an olive in there on a really bold day. But everyone says like, oh, you must have the most vibrant closet. I'm like, no.

Sue Wadden (02:55.217)

Yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (03:03.859)

Yeah.

Sue Wadden (03:05.64)

I'm sorry.

Katie Decker-Erickson (03:16.126)

No, I sure don't folks because I'm swimming in it all day and I think sometimes I just am so saturated by it. Do you guys find that you're, yeah, to your point Ruthanne, your house is just blue. We found a color, we're going with that color. Sue, do you find, one room is blue, okay.

Ruthanne Hanlon (03:18.28)

Yeah.

Sue Wadden (03:18.597)

Mm-mm.

Ruthanne Hanlon (03:31.067)

Well, one room is blue. Yeah, just one. I have two rooms that are black, and they've been that way for almost 15 years now, and I love them. Like, that's my go-to when I'm working with a homeowner. They're like, oh, you just pick the colors. And of course, we don't want to do that. We don't live there. We don't have the same furnishings. And if they press, I say, well, I said, I have two black rooms in my house, and those are my favorite. Like, do you still want me to pick your colors? And they'll say, mm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (03:37.96)

Oof.

Sue Wadden (03:39.269)

Bye.

Sue Wadden (03:43.966)

Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (03:44.013)

Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (03:52.235)

Sure.

Katie Decker-Erickson (03:58.914)

Hahaha

Sue Wadden (03:59.048)

Heheheheheheheheheheheheheheh

Ruthanne Hanlon (03:59.711)

No, maybe not. But that's like, it's for you. You need to pick colors that resonate with you. So no, but I did go through color. I had the aubergine, you know, bedroom and the sage family room and the gold and the red kitchen. Okay, this is a long time ago, ladies, I'm dating myself. But so I had that. And then I kind of switched to more neutrals, but I do like dark neutrals. I just find there.

Katie Decker-Erickson (04:18.354)

No, no judgment here.

Ruthanne Hanlon (04:27.771)

Same thing, you're working with color all day, and these are kind of just a breath. Plus all the noise in the world. It's kind of nice to just come home to quiet. And I have three dogs, so it's not quiet. But to come down to calm. And plus I have an older home with a lot of wood and stuff. So that dictates what you can do a little bit as well. But we know Stu doesn't have a loop.

Katie Decker-Erickson (04:33.675)

Mm-hmm.

Sue Wadden (04:38.876)

Yeah.

Katie Decker-Erickson (04:44.854)

Neat.

Yeah, for sure. How about you Sue? Yeah.

Sue Wadden (04:47.944)

Definitely. Yeah, kind of the same thing. I just, I feel like I either need really, really complex colors with like a lot of pigment in them, or I need like clean slate. Like I'm currently obsessed with like mushroom tones. So whites with sort of a gray or muted undertone, I think are so beautiful. And again, I think that's my brain, just like you need to chill for a little bit lady and get some more restive interiors.

Katie Decker-Erickson (05:01.85)

Mmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (05:10.55)

Yeah, yeah.

Ruthanne Hanlon (05:10.965)

Yep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (05:14.314)

Yeah, that makes complete sense. I'm thinking back on, we had Sue on the show and we'll put the hyperlink to her episode a while back and I think you recorded in your dining room and whatever that color was, was fabulous. It feels like what you're describing to me. Yeah.

Sue Wadden (05:26.556)

It's beautiful. So it's a color called taiga, which my son is gonna laugh. Like when we named that color, he named it for me. And it's like the color of the Siberian forest above the tree line. So it's like a silver evergreen. It's really pretty, but it's got a ton of undertones. So you just look at it and you kind of get lost in the dimensionality of the color. And that's stuck, that sticks. Like usually I'll try a color for one or two years, especially in a small space, and then it's out.

Katie Decker-Erickson (05:36.855)

I love that.

Ruthanne Hanlon (05:42.207)

That was beautiful.

Katie Decker-Erickson (05:42.486)

beautiful

Sue Wadden (05:53.744)

and that one I've had for a couple of seasons. So it's a goodie. It's a good one.

Katie Decker-Erickson (05:57.942)

That's amazing. That's awesome. I love it. It was beautiful to see. It was incredible to see. Yeah. I know. Now everyone's going to hop on and go Google all the colors that we're talking about. I don't want to let you off the hook easily, Sue. You mentioned those deep browns. Do you have one or two colors from your palette? It's sure when you would want us to take a peek at.

Ruthanne Hanlon (05:59.496)

sounds it.

Now I gotta go look it up.

Sue Wadden (06:04.518)

It's beautiful.

Ruthanne Hanlon (06:06.76)

Yeah.

Sue Wadden (06:07.864)

It's good.

Sue Wadden (06:18.492)

Yeah, so there's a color, it's my front door color, hilariously enough. It's called antiquarian brown. It's from our historic line, and it almost reads like a terracotta. It's a warm nut brown, kind of mid-tone range, and it's excellent. It just goes with everything. It's almost like a, what I'm trying to think of non-sherwin color descriptions. It's like a, not a cordovan, but like a sesame color, like a deep toasted sesame. So I just love it.

Katie Decker-Erickson (06:26.441)

Okay.

Katie Decker-Erickson (06:30.722)

Hmm. Okay.

Katie Decker-Erickson (06:45.132)

Ooh.

Sue Wadden (06:47.696)

Love it, love it. And we use it in, maybe because it's so reminiscent of wood tones. So like if I'm thinking about like a scrubbed oak or a washed pine, it's kind of that color. And I can, I use it so many places. So that is my current favorite brown that I love right now. Oh, 0045 I think is the number. It's a good one.

Katie Decker-Erickson (06:53.382)

Mmm.

Katie Decker-Erickson (06:59.245)

Yep.

Katie Decker-Erickson (07:05.929)

I love it. Okay.

Ruthanne Hanlon (07:06.463)

Sounds yummy.

Katie Decker-Erickson (07:09.698)

0045, all right, we're gonna put hyperlinks to all of this in the show notes. So if you're listening, come back to the show notes and we'll have hyperlinks to these colors to both Sean Williams and PPG's website so you don't have to go find them later. It's a lot to ask. So thank you ladies, this has been such a great conversation. I so appreciate your time, your industry expertise and just your personalities. It's been fabulous, thank you so much.

Sue Wadden (07:11.504)

Yeah. Thank you.

Sue Wadden (07:33.316)

I agree. What a great day. So thanks, Ruthann. This was too fun. Thank you. Exactly. I agree. All right.

Ruthanne Hanlon (07:33.747)

Thank you, this has been amazing. Yes, Nisba the afternoon with you, we'll have to do this again. Thank you so much. Yes. Bye bye.

Katie Decker-Erickson (07:40.266)

We absolutely will count on it next year if not sooner. All right, bye everybody.

Sue Wadden (07:43.693)

All right. Bye, Katie.