Building a business that’s profitable and sustainable is such an important goal. But how can you get yourself to that place when you still have that mental chatter of “What if?” And how big of a role does mindset play in this whole personal and professional growth anyway?

I’m so glad to have Laura Thornton back on the podcast! This time we’re discussing the mindset shifts that are imperative when looking to scale your design business. Laura shares insights about growing a team, advice about being courageous and growing your confidence, and the raw truth of what it really takes to take your business to that next level—whatever that looks like for you! Enjoy the conversation and make sure you stick around for the Coaching Corner!

In this episode, we cover:

• Why Laura believes she could’ve had a more profitable, successful business earlier—and why she didn’t

• How Laura got the confidence to scale her design business

• The one really key final step for every project that so many business owners completely skip

• When Laura began thinking differently as a business owner and what inspired that shift

• How Laura’s business and projects grew naturally after her mindset shift about money

• The importance of setting goals, having a core purpose, and establishing values

• Some typical growing pains to expect along the entrepreneurial journey

• What mindset shift to embrace to help launch you to that next level of business

• The biggest realization Laura had when it came time to grow her team

• How Laura would hire differently if she had to go back and do it again

• How to make sure you give clients what they need and create value so growth is sustainable

• The tasks that Laura was and was not willing to give up to scale her design firm

• How to keep your team on board with new ideas and changes

Getting through that internal chatter, doing the deep work, and sitting in that is so invaluable because we're often our biggest obstacles. If we can just move ourselves out of the way, we can accomplish so much! If this conversation sparked something for you, we’d love to hear from you! Say hello on LinkedIn so we can continue the conversation.

More about Laura Thornton

Laura Thornton, Founder and Creative Director of the award-winning Thornton Design Studio since 1999, shares her wealth of experience and insights with fellow interior designers through her podcast, "The Business of Beautiful Spaces." Dive into a series packed with expert advice, business analysis, and innovative strategies crafted to elevate your interior design business prowess. Laura's passion to educate and inspire drives this podcast, serving as a catalyst for growth and success in the design industry. Now Laura is building a community where success stories are the norm, and explore her latest offering, "The Profit Academy for Interior Designers"—a transformative 6-week online course focused on pricing mastery and maximizing profitability in design projects.

Links and Mentioned Resources

Coaching Strategy Session

Entrepreneurs Organization

Harvard Business Review BHAGs

Related Episodes

How to Make Money as an Interior Designer

The Table: The Future of Interior Design

Connect with Laura Thornton

Website

Instagram

Podcast

This episode is brought to you by Plumtree.it

Plumtree is a fractional technology service provider. This means you will have access to top dedicated talent for a fraction of the price. Together we can craft the perfect technology infrastructure for you and your company, and give you the support you need to stay calm, cool, and collected.

Connect with Katie Decker-Erickson

Book Your Coaching Strategy Session with Katie!

Business Coaching for Interior Designers

Facebook

Instagram

Subscribe to Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design

YouTube

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

More about Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design

As an interior designer, do you struggle with balancing your passion for creativity with the practical demands and hopes of running a successful business? Whether starting a new venture or scaling an existing firm, the complexities can be overwhelming. Welcome to “Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design,” a podcast designed to bridge the gap between creativity and entrepreneurship. 

This masterclass is hosted by the dynamic Katie Decker-Erickson, a seasoned expert with nearly 20 years of experience in interior design, a Master's degree in Business Administration, and creator and owner of a multimillion-dollar interior design firm. 

Each episode offers innovative and actionable business strategies, engaging conversations, and practical guidance to help you build and grow a successful design business. Tune in every other Friday on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms to ignite your creative spark and sharpen your entrepreneurial skills. (Topics and language are kid/family friendly.)

This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you. 

This episode of Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design is brought to you in partnership with Leah Bryant Co.

The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design follows

Katie (00:01.154)

Hey, Laura, welcome back to the show.

Laura Thornton (00:03.807)

Thank you so much for having me back. It's always a pleasure to talk to you, Katie.

Katie (00:07.622)

we're so glad to have you back. And honestly, I wish that our audience could have enjoyed the last like 25 unproductive moments with us just because we just enjoy hanging out. And like, it doesn't matter that we're on opposite ends of the continent. Literally, we always have the best time. But we brought you on today to talk about something that's so relevant as we look at elevating from those six figures to those seven figures. Even don't go away if you're at the five figure or even four figure and you're trying to figure out how to get to the next bump because

We're talking mindset and it really applies no matter where you are at in your entrepreneurial journey, whether you have a full firm and you've got a ton of people or if you're just hung out your shingle and you're like, gosh, what now? But there is this tipping point that happens when we change mindset when it comes not only to our profitability, but just how we're running our business. Do you remember when that happened for you?

Laura Thornton (01:00.102)

Mm-hmm. It happened well before I was willing to dive in and commit to growth. I probably could have done it minimum six to seven years before I did it. again, to this conversation, was mindset and it was confidence is basically I was lacking the confidence to pull that trigger and to spend that money to move it to the next level.

Katie (01:13.496)

honest.

Katie (01:19.438)

Mmm.

Katie (01:27.266)

So it's interesting you should say that because when I was speaking at High Point with Rick Campos, who's another brilliant coach, he was talking about the number one thing he's coaching on at the moment is confidence. What changed for you when it came to confidence? Like, was there a client or an incident? Or was it just hitting a certain age of being like, I figured this out. Why am I not acting like I figured this out or feeling like I can figure this out?

Laura Thornton (01:54.868)

I think every project brings you more more confidence because let's face it, even now, 27 years later, every project I'm learning something. There is never a project that goes completely flawless. There's always some lesson. There's always some hiccup. There's always something that we have to navigate and, you know.

Katie (02:02.112)

So true.

Katie (02:08.735)

us.

Laura Thornton (02:11.454)

correct, if you will. I always say it's like the days that I carry my hose, like I'm like a fireman who just has to put out fires all day. And I find those are the ones that literally teach us the most. And the more of those that you have, as much as we all would love to have a project go flawlessly, those are the ones that we learn from. Those are the ones that bring us the confidence that when we meet the next client, we can very confidently add more to whatever we're educating our client on because we've experienced it. We've done it. We've lived it. So we can ask more questions. We can seek

more information so that we are not having these issues every project. And I think that comes with not time and not being seasoned, but with every project, you'll learn a little bit more. And then with age, I mean, that's just natural, I think. I feel like I had probably too much confidence when I was younger that was a disservice. But as it naturally grew, it definitely was a plus in every project. And the more confident you can be and the more you can absorb it,

Katie (02:41.934)

Mm.

Katie (02:51.127)

Yeah.

Katie (03:00.052)

So fair.

Laura Thornton (03:09.778)

every project, I truly believe the more you'll win because I think that reads and comes across when you are presenting yourself and your business to potential clients.

Katie (03:19.564)

I think that's such a good point. In fact, we call it the lessons learned. And a lot of times at the end of a project, it's easy just to go march onto the next one or keep all the other babies in the bathwater and trying to keep it all bubbling along. But stopping for that one minute to say, what are the lessons we learned on this project? What are the big takeaways that this project brought us? And taking your team and giving it that one hour is so valuable. We started doing that. And that one hour has changed.

So many of the things we do, we update our templates in real time when that happens. SOPs like we need to do this or this or this. And it's just a chance to reflect. And I don't feel like we're very good at reflection in our culture either. It's always on to the next big thing, right? Do you have something similar you do in your firm?

Laura Thornton (04:06.72)

So it's on topic, but I know it's scary for a lot of people, is that we ask for feedback from our client. So as much as it's important what we have internally learned and how to increase and how to better our processes from those lessons, it's also finding out how it was perceived on the client's end. And it's scary to send out a survey or to ask them for honest feedback because you're afraid of sometimes what's going to come back. But at the end of the day, those nuggets have been.

Katie (04:10.85)

Yeah. Yep.

Laura Thornton (04:33.974)

100 % game changer in our business because we don't want, if there's anything negative as awful as it is, it really helps us build a better business, which then means we're being better for our next client. And then whether that's communication or whether that is a process thing, it really helps us navigate so that we can keep getting better and better in all avenues. So as much as, yes, we do sit down collectively as a team, go through the project, I find that information from our client really

really impactful to every and sometimes it is there there i feel like maybe they're a little too nervous to give us the goods but then you will get yeah but then you get some of them where they're like i really liked this process but i found this one a little confusing and then you can try and maybe ask them to clarify and if you've had a great experience with a great client i think they want you to know i think they want that opportunity and and as long as you're willing to receive it and digest it and not try to

Katie (05:09.198)

I always wonder, yeah.

Katie (05:16.846)

Hmm.

Laura Thornton (05:31.387)

answer, like not try and defend it, just hear it. You'll do, you'll make your business better for the next client.

Katie (05:37.602)

That's a golden nugget because I think it's really easy to be like, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, And instead just take it, accept it. was, there was this great tip that came from a psychologist that was teaching class in college. He said, before you accept something, you can decide, is it true? Is it important? And is it permanent? And that was his tip. Is it true? Is it important? Is it permanent? You can do that internally. You do not have to do that to the client. So say, yeah, is that true? Is that legit?

Is that important? What can we change about it? Is it permanent? Can it be changed? And then go fix it. Really go fix it. It's easy to want to defend. But usually they have, I usually find clients know. They usually know. They're not usually nuts. There's usually a reason why it's real or you wouldn't have brought them on as a client in the first place.

Laura Thornton (06:26.774)

And we're so referral based our business. It's really important to hear how they thought of our process or work or if something stood out that they didn't enjoy, I'd rather know so that they don't say that nugget to their friend. Well, we had a really great experience with Lerner team except for A, B and C. I can change A, or C so that if we do get the job on the next one, the client's like, I don't know what they were talking about. We didn't have that problem. So that you can keep refining your process and that keeps leveling up your business. And how can that be bad?

Katie (06:29.378)

Gosh, yes.

Katie (06:42.464)

Yep.

Katie (06:56.204)

And that breeds the confidence, which gets us back to the mindset again of all of that flowing, which makes complete sense. Talk to us about switching mindset when it comes to advanced thinking. Did you feel like there was a time when you started thinking at a different level as a business owner, and what precipitated that as well?

Laura Thornton (06:56.68)

Correct. Right. Yep.

Laura Thornton (07:16.234)

I think it was two moments in time. One was the five years before I should have probably pulled the trigger, got the space and started hiring staff. The reasons for not doing that at the time was a younger family. And I think as most of us can attest, you always feel like that money could be saved for yourself instead of in your business. And, you know, if I only knew what I knew then, you would, I always think, why would I have been five years, you know, sooner? But that is, I think that's scarcity.

Katie (07:24.12)

Fair.

Katie (07:44.024)

Yeah.

Laura Thornton (07:46.23)

if that's a good term for it, it's that mindset of, let's just pretend it was $1,000 a month for rent. I actually think that's what it was back then. Well, that's $12,000 I could have in my pocket or go towards my children's education or whatever you can come up with. That mindset was a real nugget for me to get over. And once I got over that and got into this space, that was when the business blew up because it definitely is a change.

Katie (07:46.83)

Yes.

Laura Thornton (08:14.376)

thought change for myself. I've always have been and still am a learner. I love learning more about the business. I'm always reading. I'm always trying to absorb more to see how we can do better and how I can elevate my business. And as I was mentioning to you prior to starting, I am an EO member, the Entrepreneurs' Organization. It's global and it's all entrepreneurs in the same place that we are trying to figure out our businesses and how to level up and we learn from each other and grow.

our businesses through each other's recommendations. those things definitely made a big difference for me. So changing from the technician to the CEO of the business and knowing that I had to pay these bills and I had to pay people really took the business to the next level. And it is a mindset for sure, because you're no longer thinking, I don't have anything to cover. I just have to cover myself. So $5,000 profit doesn't sound so bad. But when you have bills to pay, people to pay and

Katie (08:52.342)

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Laura Thornton (09:10.804)

What happens naturally is your projects become bigger, your clients become bigger. For whatever reason, it's perceived as more established to have your space. You can bring clients to your space. The whole business shifted because my mindset shifted, because I was very proud of my space and what I had done and what I had accomplished. I think it showed in so many more ways that I wasn't embarrassed to, they couldn't come to my home. Where were clients going to come?

Katie (09:13.832)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laura Thornton (09:37.962)

where were they, and I could show my work and I could show what we could do in a space. And I think that that shift from being in my business, that technician doing everything, wearing all the hats to the CEO, if you will, I know that's just a term, but like you kind of get my correlation and running the business was the bigger mind shift. That came from having goals. I think it's really important to have goals because to change your business from a five, six to a seven figure, maybe you're at eight, which good for you, we need to talk.

Katie (09:38.168)

Yeah.

Katie (09:53.943)

Absolutely.

Laura Thornton (10:07.702)

We'd love to know how you did that. Yeah, I'm working on that. But I think it's really important to have goals to know why you're choosing to make these shifts in your business. What are you driving towards? And I didn't have that for a while. And by having these goals and having a core purpose and value to your company, and in addition to that, there's a Harvard Law Review. I'm sure you've read this article about your big hairy audacious goals, your BHAGs.

Katie (10:08.046)

Yeah, call me and Laura. We'd love to have you on the show.

Katie (10:29.806)

Hmm.

Laura Thornton (10:35.154)

And having these big goals as something to drive to with 10, 30 years away really helps you narrow down your vision and helps you really work your business to get to where you want to be as opposed to, just want a space. I just want that. That doesn't actually give you anything to drive towards. And those mindsets and those items that you need to work on in your business, like they take a while to develop and what you think is important and.

whether that's personal or business, but those goals and those values that you're working towards really help cultivate the business in a way, in a direction that you want. Because the first year I hit seven figures, I had high revenue, but I made less profit. So I think there's that downfall. People just hear this number and they think that's fabulous. And yes, it's great if that was your goal, but there's more to it than just the revenue number. You have to be making profit.

Katie (11:14.793)

yeah.

Laura Thornton (11:27.722)

And so there's a lot of learning. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Katie (11:28.044)

That is such a point. It is such a key point because I can't tell you how many people I end up coaching, how many designers. And when I tell them your profit margin should be X, they look at me like I have a screw loose. And I'm like, no, really, it should be X. And you would literally think that they were doing it for charity. And I'm like, no, no, make enough money so you can do charity. Go create the charity branch of your business.

You need to make this profitable. And to have that dip is a counterpoint to my own point, I will say. But to have that dip your first year is really normal, because you're going to pick up a boatload more of capital expenditures. Right? Like, you're going to have the rent. You're going to have the electrical. You're going to have, I mean, those are new line items. Yeah, new line items for sure. But then after that,

Laura Thornton (12:15.069)

Salaries, yeah.

Katie (12:20.076)

we should see an upward trend again of like now that we have the staff and we have the place and we have the, we should start seeing that growth accelerate.

Laura Thornton (12:28.628)

Yeah, and you don't have the historical data yet because you don't, the team is still new. You don't have, I mean, I knew how long it took me to do certain tasks and I was still pricing my projects based on me doing those tasks. So that wasn't the person in the seat doing that task. So there was, there's a learning curve for sure. Like to your point, like there is the first year is a struggle and you're, you know, part of that mindset is the fear of letting all of these elements go in your business.

Katie (12:37.502)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (12:45.602)

Yeah. Yeah.

Laura Thornton (12:55.198)

and you're having to trust somebody to do what you want them to do. So I spent more time on things, I didn't have the historical data, and I overspent because of it. And so as much as this is a great number and a good accomplishment, I was actually making less money and I was working harder to do it. So there is some lessons in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So mindset is huge in there.

Katie (13:01.848)

Yep.

Katie (13:09.453)

Yeah.

Katie (13:13.336)

You're like, what did I do with my life?

You know, it's interesting looking back at that. And I'm thinking of a couple of different people that are currently on my coaching roster that are in this exact same predicament. And it's scary. It's scary to be the one to push yourself beyond your own comfort zone, which is our job as CEOs. It is our job to push ourselves. No one else is going to do it because you are it, right? How did you find the courage to say, I know I need to open my own?

I know I need to hire people and it's so validating to hear I did it and it worked But if you're sitting on the other side of it It's like your first swim lesson when you're a kid like I've seen other people do it everybody else can swim But now you want me to get in and do it, right? What do you say to people that are like Laura? I've been hanging out in the six figure business and I just don't know how to get to seven and I'm really Scared of it. I could get it to six, but now I'm sitting here and I'm like, what is the next thing?

that I need to do to get it to seven.

Laura Thornton (14:20.182)

So this is a hard one to get until you.

do it, but maybe you're with me on this one, Katie. I find in those moments when I jump and then I have time later to reflect, when you're uneasy, that's your biggest growth period right there. That moment where the two overlap, like you imagine two balls overlapping and this is the safe zone and the right hand side is the scary jump and that overlap right there is the uncomfortable middle zone. you know, trust your gut, you have it for a reason, but you know you're gonna play the game in your head of...

Katie (14:26.892)

Yeah.

Laura Thornton (14:50.934)

I shouldn't do it, I should listen. We all know that if we're thinking about it, we're probably there. If you're thinking this much about making the leap, you're there. Now, I wish I could say, was all me and I did it by myself. I also have a lovely husband who was very supportive and said, what's the and it's funny because I do this with my children. So if my children are having a moment and whatever it is, or I remember my son called me in first year university and he was freaking out about his first exam. And I was like, okay, kiddo, what is the worst that's going to happen?

Katie (14:56.654)

Katie (15:06.542)

Hmm.

Katie (15:17.806)

Hmm.

Laura Thornton (15:20.118)

What's the worst case scenario? Will I fail? And then what? Well, then you're going to be upset with me. No, I'm not. Did you try your hardest? Yes, I did. OK. So what's the worst thing that's going to happen? Well, I'm going to have to take the course again and you're going to have to pay for it again. OK. That's the worst case scenario. Is that really that bad? No. OK. Right. So he basically reversed psychology that on me. So what's the worst case scenario here, Laura? I'm like, well, I'll lose $12,000 in rent this year.

Katie (15:34.902)

Nobody is dying out here. Yeah.

Laura Thornton (15:45.362)

Okay, and then what? Do you not think you can make $12,000 back? I'm like, no, it's only $12,000. So when I was saying it's only $12,000 over here, but over here I was saying, it's $12,000, it's a lot of money, and you're all anxious about it. He was like, that's the worst case scenario. And I was like, yeah, that's the worst case scenario. That's it. It's money that I was at an age at the time that wasn't so much that it was gonna break me, and it wasn't something that...

Katie (16:03.266)

Yeah, I can do that.

Laura Thornton (16:11.882)

You know, so that was, he was very good about pushing me that little bit. And again, once I got here, I can't even, you can't go back there, but those pivotal moments and that uncomfortableness, that gross little feeling, that's not a gross feeling like the sofa's not gonna fit down the stairs, the gross feeling of excitement, like, ooh, don't, yeah, that's two different reasons not to sleep. But those moments I feel are the biggest moments of growth. And those...

Katie (16:20.598)

No. Yeah. Yeah.

Katie (16:28.664)

We've all had that one too.

Katie (16:34.563)

Yeah.

Laura Thornton (16:38.218)

That has been steady for me in my business where it's that uncomfortable, but in a good, exciting kind of way that once you pull the trigger, but I know that's not an easy, like, this is the moment for everybody. Everyone's got to do what you're comfortable with. But I do find that that uncomfortable middle ground is where I've made the biggest growth. Because of course it's scary. It was scary to go out on your own. It was scary to give up your salary that was guaranteed on Fridays. It was scary to do, but you still started your own business. You still did.

Katie (16:40.92)

Yeah. Yeah.

Laura Thornton (17:06.301)

Like these are all scary moments, but now they seem easy and forgotten about. So now you're just at that next scary moment that you could make that leap.

Katie (17:14.55)

love that. And usually what I find too is when I sit with myself for a minute, it's not that is like an overarching, almost like saran wrap on the bowl. It's not really about the saran wrap. It's what's underneath. And so I can be afraid of the 12,000. Or I can sit there for a minute and say, what is my real fear? Well, for me, intrinsically, I know it's a fear of failure, I have a very big fear of failure. So when I sit in that for a minute,

It's more about the emotion. And I'll use the 12,000 as the saran wrap or like the header, but really it's the fear of failure. And I hate that feeling. And so to be okay, there's a great mantra that someone on our team introduced. It's fail faster. Because you're either gonna succeed and it's gonna feel amazing. I love the high that comes after you think like this could go really sideways, but it didn't and it worked.

That puts us back in a high octane, right? Like, it's like, it worked. And then you like wanna do it again, because that was so much fun and it worked and we were so afraid, but it still worked. Or if it didn't work, great, because fail fast at it. So you go figure out what it is you are supposed to be doing. To the case of your son, great, you fail the test. Is this a subject? Does this make sense to you? Is this what you wanna do with the rest of your life? Is it just not a passion? Is it if he had failed, right? Like there's a gift in that too.

but you can never steer a parked car. You gotta get moving through that fear if you're gonna figure out which direction you're gonna go with either a repeat of like, that was so amazing, we're gonna take it to the next level. And you keep doing that and ratcheting up your game, or you change the course. There's no shame in that either, I don't think. Did you ever think about changing the course?

Laura Thornton (19:03.284)

Yeah, I still do all the time. All the time. All the time. All the time. think it's the nature of the beast. I definitely, like I said, I'm constantly learning. I'm constantly seeking more. don't know if, I mean, I know that there's a lot of people in the world that just think, I'd be satisfied. I don't know if I'll ever be satisfied. I don't know if that's something in my mindset and in my work ethic. Thank you, mom and dad, for that. But it's definitely...

Katie (19:05.127)

I love the honesty of that. Tell me more.

Katie (19:14.51)

Mm.

Katie (19:29.93)

Yep, drives my husband nuts. Do you plan to retire? Not really, I'm having fun.

Laura Thornton (19:33.338)

I am constantly, I know, I'm constantly thinking about it. I'm constantly trying to figure out how to build. I'm constantly, you know, and then I think, maybe, and then now I know, I kind of touched on this. I turned 50 this year and your mind plays some games on you. I'm like, how long can I run at the pace that I'm running? But then the way my mind keeps working, I'm constantly trying to come up with more avenues for my business. I'm constantly trying to take it to the next level. I'm constantly trying to elevate and push us. So.

Katie (19:41.166)

Mm.

Laura Thornton (20:01.046)

Until I burn out of that, think that's just gonna be a constant. I am continually trying to learn and absorb it and more. And I mean, I've read a lot of books and that does not make you an expert by any means, but there has been this constant flow of five failures to every success. So back to just your point before about like, yes, you won one and you feel good. I think it's okay to have five, whether you wanna call them failures or lessons, learning lessons.

Katie (20:03.822)

you

Mm-hmm.

Katie (20:19.854)

Bye.

Laura Thornton (20:29.334)

of it'll get you to the point where it's supposed to be the right move. Like all of those lessons, like kind of like what I saying, all these things that happen on job sites, we could look at them as failures or we could look at them as stepping stones to make our companies great. And I choose to see them, yeah, I choose to see them as that's just next step to making us even better than we were for that last project.

Katie (20:42.062)

I think it's so true.

Katie (20:50.018)

You know what's so interesting though is I was thinking about that even in relationship to relationships and sometimes you don't want to bring up the ugly. We don't want to bring up the ugly, right? Like we don't want to bring up like the hard things, whether it's in your marriage or the hard things of the job or the hard things of that project or that client. But when you unearth them, you can work through them. And the power of being able to do that positions you in such an amazing place for what's next that we

Gosh, it's so hard to say, but like we really do ourselves a disservice by not doing the work of unearthing what didn't work well or what was a failure and go ahead and name it and claim it. Right? Like that didn't work. This is how we're going to fix it next time. This is the mindset we're going to go to. Even that mindset right there of being open to it is powerful. I just, yeah.

How did you decide, a big part of Mindset too is the ability, I think, to delegate and to trust because you have to free up your own mind. How did you do that when you opened your own shop?

Laura Thornton (21:58.352)

Not very easily. not. You mean like giving it up to staff and team? Yeah, that was that was bar none the hardest to give up control. Because again, if you want to grow your business into seven figures, you are not doing it on your own. It's actually like, trust me, I tried. It's impossible. You need help. Like those numbers, those numbers. Let's just say you're just design and you're not bringing in any products to help drive that number, which that's even harder. The amount of work that you

Katie (22:01.71)

Yeah, yeah, kind of to your point.

Katie (22:13.154)

Yeah. You need a team.

Katie (22:26.562)

I was gonna say that some yeah.

Laura Thornton (22:28.18)

Yeah, the amount of work and hours that you are putting into your business to have that happen, I don't know when you're gonna sleep. So you need a team, you would need people to be able to take you to that next level, just pure volume of what's coming in and out. And the nature of that is, I think most designers were control freaks. We want this perfection, we want our projects. And up until that moment, I knew, and even now, the way my brain is wired, and I know this is a consistent thread for all of us, I could still pull things out of a project 15 years ago that I did on my own.

Like if they called me back tomorrow, I could tell you what tile, probably the grout color, probably the cabinet shaker stuff. I could tell you so many things because I touched every single thing. As soon as you have a team now and you're not touching every single thing and a client, I'll get a call from a job site and I don't know the answer. That's a really hard moment. I'm like, I'll get back to you on that because I now don't know every hinge and knob and paint color and.

Katie (22:58.232)

Mm-hmm.

Katie (23:07.918)

Yeah.

Laura Thornton (23:27.592)

Like, it's all gonna come together and it's all gonna look beautiful, but you can't ask me on the fly anymore because I don't have that knowledge because I didn't pick it. I approved it, I okayed it, I saw the scheme, loved it, move on, but you had to give up that control, which is really hard at first. And until you have the right people in the right seats and the hire slow and fire fast is paramount.

Katie (23:46.572)

Yup.

Laura Thornton (23:52.224)

the wrong part, because I made that mistake too, trying to be like, well, maybe she'll get that maybe she'll learn and maybe she'll get there. And I'll try and move her over here. Yeah, like I'll move her into this spot to get this individual to be no, they don't fit. They're not the right fit. You got it. You got to get the right people in the right seats. And that's a game changer for your business. But also you'll trust who is doing the job for you that you will be more willing to let those items go so that

Katie (23:57.454)

no, that is such a nugget. No.

Laura Thornton (24:21.363)

you can move on to the next project.

Katie (24:21.742)

I I love, love what you said. Higher, slow, fire, fast. Once you know it's not gonna work, let it go. I will say my one caveat for that is have someone else ready to go who can come into that position or it's gonna be you. So there's a little asterisk at the end of that nugget. Make sure you got somebody else to step into the spot to do it.

Laura Thornton (24:27.84)

fast.

Laura Thornton (24:33.055)

Mm-hmm.

Laura Thornton (24:37.865)

Yeah.

You

Katie (24:48.226)

You know, it's interesting talking about scaling too. I think there's a lot of conversations around this topic of like growth is a good thing. Growth is critical. Growth is what you should be doing. Growth is everything. It is not just about growth. It's about creating better value for your client. How did you do that as you did grow without just attaining...

or seeking that seven figure growth for the sake of that seven figure growth. Cause as you pointed out the first year, my salary went down. So how did you do that to make sure you were giving the clients what they needed and creating that value so the growth was sustainable?

Laura Thornton (25:29.728)

So the one thing that is going to go against a lot of business acumen is that I built a business on my face being the business and my clients getting to know me. I don't feel like my business is going to be something that I can sell in the future, so therefore I'm not focused on working myself out of the business. I have always been the face of the business and I make sure that I am still on every project, on every job site, and in most meetings with my client. There are things that I don't need to be there for, but I will explain that to them.

Katie (25:35.725)

Do it.

Katie (25:53.72)

guys.

Laura Thornton (25:59.671)

Communication is key right from the very beginning in every phase and step of our process, which is also key to scaling up. I know we're not touching on all these elements. I know it's not mindset, but you do need to have a very clear process before you can even consider building a team and building your business into seven figures or even six figures. And that is something where all the way along every phase, my clients know what's coming. We've been very good about communicating, over-communicating.

We have PDFs for every phase, for everything that goes out in our business, they will get a, here's another PDF of what to expect in this phase, even though we covered it way back when. So I find that clear communication is key and that I am still the face. It's not just I come in to wow you and then you never see me again. Here's your project manager and I'll see you on photo day. No, it's always still me. They can call me or email me, but they still have a relationship with me.

Katie (26:48.398)

Hmm.

Laura Thornton (26:58.301)

And I find that is been a game changer because a lot of my clients as I grew were like, well, I don't want to deal with so and so. like, no, they'll be on your job site, but you can still, like they didn't want to lose the connection to me. That's where their confidence was. And then it naturally built that they gained confidence in the other team members, but they still have a connection to me. It is not you're passed off and now you're just another client in our roster. You are still very important to me. I built this business on referrals and I built this business.

Katie (27:08.43)

Mmm. Mmm.

Laura Thornton (27:26.474)

having relationships, I feel it's a very personal job that we have. It's a very connecting job that we have with our clients. I am into intimate parts of their home. I know what their dog is doing. I know how old their kids are. It's a very personal job in so many ways, and I don't want to lose that connection with our clients. So those were key for me, communication, and that they still have that ability to see me on their job sites at all times.

Katie (27:44.814)

Hmm.

Laura Thornton (27:54.527)

which I know a lot of people have an opposite, move yourself out of your business so that you can run it without you.

Katie (27:54.83)

Wait.

Katie (28:00.414)

No, I always, and I love that you brought this up because you're talking about your core values. Whenever anyone says, I don't even know what my company's core values are, I'm like, just start talking like that, you're gonna find them all. They're all right in there. But it's also so valuable that, I mean, each one of those points is so critical to creating value. If you don't have processes, you can't create value. If you don't have the relationship, you can't create value. If you don't have communication, you can't create value.

All of those things your clients feel and they're very, very tangible. And that's why we got into this industry. And like in the first place, right? I can't think of one of the people that I coach who doesn't come to and approach every one of their clients with an immense amount of heart and passion to give them what they want. And it's scary to think about not doing that. And I always say, no, build the processes so the people can work on them. But to your point, you can still be the face.

of the company and you should, they were attracted to you, your design, your creativity and your art form back in the day. That's what got them here, right? That's why you still keep getting those referrals. You know, it sounds really cheesy and I love to geek out on history stuff, but the whole reason or one of the primary reasons Rome lost its empire is because it outsourced its army. And if your goal is to outsource your entire business to the point that you're no longer running it, it's not your business. It's not your art form. It's not why you...

are getting referrals. You're not going to have anything left. And to try to clean that up, it's been interesting. I watched this happen with a client watching them try to clean it up after they had given so much of it away. It's like trying to put water back into a strainer. It was the most painful, hard because they had lost the value and their clients felt it, which is so hard to do. How did you decide? Okay, I'm going from six to seven figures. What were you willing to give up control of?

and what were you not? And you kind of alluded to it, like, I'm gonna be at the client meetings, but then what on the back end were you like, no, you go create the mood board and then run it by me.

Laura Thornton (30:01.768)

At the beginning I gave up AutoCAD drawings, concepts. I gave up my AutoCAD, like me doing the drawings, which was hard because that's one of my favorite parts of design was the space planning. But I did, you you talk about it, you have the conversations, but those are hours in a day that I could pass on and have somebody else on the team do that. So that was the first thing that I hired for.

Katie (30:13.058)

Yes.

Katie (30:22.606)

Mmm.

Laura Thornton (30:25.128)

And in hindsight, if I could go back and hire again, I would have hired an assistant first, but that's a whole other avenue. So first I hired someone to do AutoCAD. Cause it also felt like I could direct it very simply. And you know, that was a lesson because as we all know, the drawings are the most important thing. So if they're not done right or there's one measurement that's off, crap goes down. It shows up at the end. So you're all like, Laura, I'm like, I know.

Katie (30:36.11)

Mmm.

Laura Thornton (30:53.621)

lessons learned, Six steps. that was the...

Katie (30:54.702)

Back to that sofa that's not making it to the basement. it's never happened on our jobs, Laura. No, never.

Laura Thornton (30:58.889)

Right? Yeah, you know why that became an analogy, because that happened. someone didn't measure the pitch and that's bad. And then my second hire was the assistant, which I valued more, like helping me take the paperwork off my desk, get the orders in, quote this. Like those hours that go into procurement, even just to quote and then to order, is insane. And I, at the beginning,

Katie (31:14.094)

Mmm.

Katie (31:23.598)

That's insane.

Nobody knows till you start doing it.

Laura Thornton (31:28.69)

and I was not charging enough for a very long time before. And then when you had a teat, this is why my revenue wasn't like the profits on the revenue wasn't the same in the first year, because I wasn't actually calculating things properly, hard lessons, but you don't make that mistake twice. And so that was something. Yeah, that was something where those two were the one that gave up fast. Now, trusting someone to order on your behalf and play with your money is really, really, really tough, really tough. And of course, there's mistakes.

Katie (31:44.846)

True story.

Katie (31:56.686)

Can we talk about that for two seconds? I remember when I gave the credit card to our sourcer, the one that doesn't have a spending limit on it. I'm like, do not lose this number under any circumstances. Do not save it to your computer. Do not. I mean, it's a scary thing. Yeah, I do too.

Laura Thornton (31:58.761)

Yeah, we sure can.

Laura Thornton (32:15.862)

Do you know I know mine in my head? I'm sure everyone knows their number because we, yeah, memorized. And it got compromised and my procurement officer was like, no, do you know how long it's gonna take me to relearn a new credit card number? I know, we all know them. It's so true. It's a hard thing. And listen, if anybody out there is listening and would like some Philip Jeffries black grass cloth with rivets, I've got.

Katie (32:31.598)

Katie (32:38.83)

Thank

Laura Thornton (32:39.605)

$10,000 roll sitting in the corner of my office that was a whoopsie. So, you know, these are the things that happen when you pass over the credit card to somebody who's not you and attention to detail is not the same because it's not their money. So these are hard lessons and that those were the two first hires and the two first things that I was willing to let go. Now I had outsourced my accounting. So if we want to get super technical, that was the first thing that I ever took off my plate as the projects got larger and I started feeling like

Katie (32:44.751)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie (33:02.542)

Mm.

Laura Thornton (33:08.83)

If I made a mistake on the taxes or I made a mistake, this could be a big red flag for me. So I had outsourced. They're not an in-house, not part of our team. It's an outsourced accounting firm that I still use today, but otherwise to hand over those items. What I wasn't willing to hand over was the actual design elements. Like I wasn't handing over the furniture selections. I wasn't handing over the fabrics. wasn't handing, part of that was control. And the other half was the team that I had.

Katie (33:29.42)

Yeah.

Laura Thornton (33:38.383)

didn't know price points. So it was faster and easier for me at the time in my head, like that was my logic, was for me to do it because I could control the budget without having to teach the budget, which was a mistake. You really do need to invest in teaching your team at the beginning so that it benefits quicker to your point, you know, when we were talking with the fire, faster, higher, slow. It was one of those things lesson learned, but those were the first things.

Katie (33:40.142)

Mmm.

Laura Thornton (34:04.991)

The assistant was bar none the biggest change and I wish I had hired that first. Just because you don't realize how much time of your week goes to paperwork.

Katie (34:09.56)

Yeah.

Katie (34:14.264)

So much of it. And I love your point about it, outsourcing the accounting right away too, because I think it's the number one thing, at least the folks I coach struggle with. It's not, not only is it a struggle, it's not a passion, right? Right-brained, left-brained. Just a fundamental difference. And so to find someone you trust with your money, that's a big, big deal. Back to higher slow. Find the right person, get it off your desk, and get back to doing what you are known for and love.

Laura Thornton (34:39.914)

Yeah.

I'm still a bit of a control freak, Katie. I don't give them full. They have zero access to my bank. I still do all the, still can't. Yeah, I still can't do it. I've heard too many horror stories and Oprah told me when I was a teenager, sign your own checks and don't give anyone. I must've been in like grade 10 after school watching Oprah Winfrey and she was yelling at like Tony Braxton or something about signing her own checks. And I was like, I hear you, Oprah. I hear you. will. And I still can't hand it over that way. So I don't know if that's still a control freak moment. I'm going to go with yes.

Katie (34:49.357)

Really?

I love you.

Katie (34:58.606)

You did that too?

Laura Thornton (35:12.693)

But I just, it's still something where they can take everything, but as soon as they have to pay a bill, just let me know and I'll take care of that. They, yeah.

Katie (35:13.25)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie (35:19.874)

Yeah, but you know, we created a process for that because I'm halfway there, but I don't want to actually do the signing.

Laura Thornton (35:23.83)

Is it called a psychiatrist? Her name is Doctor Psychiatrist for you.

Katie (35:33.23)

think there's a whole generation of us, first of all, that were raised by Oprah after school. I remember tearing off the bus. I I wonder what she has on today. I'm sure I was not in her Target demo by any stretch. But that woman was like a second mother to me. The things I learned on that show, and some of them were wildly inappropriate for my age group, but gosh, I wasn't learning them from my mother. But Oprah took care of that. I will just say for the record, she was fabulous.

But no, you know what changed for us is when, and this is so cheesy and detailed and forgive me for geeking out on this for a second, but when we created purchase orders, so everything had a purchase order with a number assigned to a project. Was it billable? Was it not billable? Who, how was it getting paid? And then every Monday, Monday getting my accounts payable, my purchase order list, my accounts receivable. And when I got those reports and I still review every single time sheet,

Isn't that ridiculous? But I'm like, I do. I'm like, if it doesn't make sense to me, we have a pivot table where all the time sheets get rolled up, billable hours, unbillable hours. I'm looking at what we spent on unbillable. Why were we doing that? Was that authorized? And yeah, I'm sure that it drives people nuts. But until it's your name on it and you're signing that check, literally or figuratively, it does matter. And if you're not in the business of your business, you're not going to have a business. And if that scares you,

Laura Thornton (36:31.241)

Me too.

Katie (36:59.822)

There's plenty of other avenues to choose and there's no judgment about that. But it really is about treating it and being in it because it is you, it is your own. And I think there's people who either thrive off that and to your point, it's like a mindset of like, like for me, that's very energizing. Like, cause if it's not working, I can change it. I got so tired of being part of organizations where things weren't working, but nobody wanted to change them. So it's like, let's see what isn't working, right? Let's fix it. Let's change it. Let's move. Let's grow. Let's adapt. One of our contractors, she's like,

everything is constantly changing over there. And I'm like, yes and no. 80 % is constant, but 20 % should constantly be changing because we are learning lessons, because we are changing our mindset, because we're learning more about what our market needs, right? How did you find the resilience to be able to do that? Because it can be exhausting at the same time, especially for teammates when like, this is where our brains go as entrepreneurs, like, we're going to be curious, we're going to read this, we're going to have an idea, we think we should try that.

How do you keep your team on board with that and create a resiliency in your team to be like, not like, no, here comes another idea, but like, cool, yeah, let's totally try that. Two very different mindsets.

Laura Thornton (38:12.627)

Yeah, and I think it's like your point about the right brain, left brain. Yes, we're creatives, but we're running a business. And so we have zero choice but to use the other side of our brain at the same time. And I just, I'm gonna circle back a little bit, because it's gonna come full circle. But to your point about the hours and checking and how important it is to be tracking your hours, regardless of how you charge for your time, it is imperative that anyone listening, even if you work for somebody else and you're just thinking about taking the leap into your own business, start tracking your time.

Katie (38:24.888)

Do it.

Katie (38:33.474)

Yes.

Laura Thornton (38:40.967)

It is the best analytical data you can get for the future, for your business, to see if you're getting more efficient and how to price your projects. is like the most important thing. And even here at my office, they give me their printouts every week and I know how many hours they worked. there was a point when, you know, during COVID, we were slammed and I get that like, you can't keep track of everything. And I was like, listen, there's 10 hours not accounted for. So I can't bill for that time.

How would you like it if I took the 10 hours off your paycheck? Because now I can't bill for that 10 hours. I'm out 10 hours. Then they were like hands up, like, okay, Laura, I got it. I was getting like pee break five minutes. I'm like, okay, now we've gone too far. Now we've gone too far. But it is important. Yeah, so.

Katie (39:18.83)

You

Katie (39:24.77)

I get you needed the vending machine, but gosh.

Laura Thornton (39:28.87)

It is like imperative that you have it down to the 15 minute because it'll be the only thing that you can use for your data to make sure that you're quoting things properly. So sorry that I went back a little bit, but I just, to your point, and I use that data. So bringing it back full circle again, it shows us if we're improving, it shows us if we're increasing, it shows us if people are in those right seats. So having all this analytical data, as much as it sucks to go through and having to use the other side of our brain instead of the fun creative, let me pick fabrics and paint,

Katie (39:38.103)

No.

Laura Thornton (39:57.833)

We have to use this data to be able to build a business that is profitable and sustainable. And it's fun and dandy to be, you know, we sit down, we have meetings every Monday, top line meetings, we talk about all our clients, but we also talk about, there anything that's not working for someone? Is there anything that you're seeing as a whole? Again, I'm just going to circle it back to communication. I think that in both our clients and our team is imperative. And we are a very collaborative industry.

Katie (40:13.464)

Yes.

Laura Thornton (40:24.499)

because we are working on projects as a team or we are working on things. So you can't just be delegating, yes, here's the task you're going to do. It can't just be me dictating and then no one else gets a say. It's really important that everyone feels like they have their hand in this project so that they feel a bit of ownership as well. And I think it really brings us closer as a team, but also as a unit and it shows to our clients when we're all working together towards the same goal.

Katie (40:42.904)

Yes, yes.

Laura Thornton (40:51.178)

That doesn't always just go just for our projects. It also goes for our office and our business and how we want to take this. And I want them to feel like they're part of it. Because they are. They're a huge part of it. I actually couldn't be doing what I'm doing without my team anymore. It's not possible. And so I think it's very important to have everybody on the same page. And communication is key to that. But also that they feel like they have ownership of these projects.

Katie (41:02.897)

if you're...

Katie (41:18.434)

I love that because if your internal clients, AKA your people, are not on board, don't worry, you won't have any external clients. They will cannibalize your business, they will get frustrated, word of back to word of mouth, because it's a great point. If you think that your people don't talk, please. You fool yourself, right? We're human beings by nature. So if you're not taking care of the people that take care of you first and foremost, you won't have anybody to take care of. Like that's just.

Laura Thornton (41:35.306)

Hmm.

Katie (41:47.244)

the brass tacks of business and giving them a seat at the table. I love that you're bringing that up. Give them a chance to say what is or is not working. We do quarterlies and they're just raw, honest quarterlies. And you could say, do a swat about the business. It's, know, my quarterlies are really easy. What's working. What's not. Are you happy? If not, why? Because happy people, it sounds so cheesy. Do you remember the old Wisconsin milk ad? It was like happy cows produce happy cheese.

Laura Thornton (42:07.155)

Yeah. Yeah.

Laura Thornton (42:17.173)

Canadian.

Katie (42:17.542)

It's is it Canadian? that's right. Wrong country. Wrong country. I just want to move her down here. Y'all we're going to pull herself. We're just going to make her part of the continental US. No, but yeah, well, I don't know. I think we're pretty comparable at this point. my gosh. I hate winter. We digress. But yeah, I think it's so true, though. But your happy cows produce happy milk. Happy employees produce happy projects and they produce happy clients. And that

Laura Thornton (42:19.869)

No, I'm Canadian, we don't have the... But it's so... Happy cows sound nice.

Laura Thornton (42:30.261)

I do like your weather better.

Katie (42:47.318)

is so important. And to your point about, like, I want to go back even to the Harvard Business Review. Yes, big hairy goals. I love these things. In fact, we have on our Slack channel a channel devoted to that. So if you literally have like this crazy idea that you're like, we should be doing that, guess what? You get to put it in the Slack channel. And like, we have a running Slack channel. And some of them are really, really, really crazy. Someone wants a corporate jet, which is like a whole other thing. I know that's what I said. like, well,

Laura Thornton (43:10.997)

I like it.

Katie (43:14.412)

That'll be the day. But you know what? If you don't dream it, you can't get there. So throw it in there and do it. And two, I think this goes back to another core concept of mindset, which is that adaptability. Sometimes people on our team will say things that I'm like, are you bloody kidding me? What? That? Huh? And then I'm like, OK, Katie, simmer down.

Laura Thornton (43:17.503)

That's right. That's right.

Katie (43:37.76)

Sit yourself down, as we like to say way down in the South, I once heard a woman in New Orleans say that she said, sit yourself down and get a bucket of fried chicken. And so sometimes you just got to sit yourself down and get a bucket of fried chicken and go, OK, that didn't sit well with me. Why didn't it sit well with me? Maybe there's some truth in it. OK, let's unpack that for a minute. Again, back to the Saran Wrap analogy. What's underneath? What's in the bowl?

Let's get down to what's really in the bowl and sort it because sometimes those are the biggest nuggets when you're looking to accelerate your business. It's the ones that are the most bothersome initially because there's a modicum of truth in there. The whole thing may not be true, but there's a nugget in there that is so invaluable that can be the game changer. Have you ever found anything like that in your business?

Laura Thornton (44:21.683)

You know, I do love a challenge. I'm, I'm, I don't, again, I think it's sometimes when you're in it, you're not seeing it the same way until you sit back and reflect. So, you know, I've had a couple of aha moments after we were done talking, moving on and I'm, I think.

Katie (44:29.568)

Yes, very true.

Laura Thornton (44:39.645)

Is it like a money mindset kind of block, like a mental block? you know, I remember my first million something project and I was like, ooh, can I do all of this? Like.

Katie (44:41.838)

Hmm.

Katie (44:51.842)

Mmm.

Laura Thornton (44:52.181)

Because, okay, so I think it was like 1.3, 1.6 million, which is a lot. Like, I get that. But it wasn't the money. It wasn't the money block. was the, ooh, how am gonna do all these bathrooms at the same time? Like, I was actually self, like, was kind of creating the block in myself. And I remember having to self-talk and say to myself, okay, you've done kitchens before. So the kitchen's done. You've done.

Katie (44:56.866)

Yeah. Sure.

Laura Thornton (45:15.456)

four or five bathrooms in one house, this is only two. Bedrooms are a breeze. Like you have to actually talk yourself out of your mental blocks. So I know that doesn't really answer your question, but I had that aha moment where I was like, I think we have these money mindset blocks that we do to ourselves. it's about, it's scary. Do I really need to make seven figures? Cause what does that mean? Like, I don't think people know what seven figures means. As, cause it's...

Katie (45:22.376)

as...

Katie (45:30.712)

We do.

Katie (45:39.522)

Yeah. Yeah, it's a thing.

Laura Thornton (45:41.779)

Like that could be your big hairy audacious goal to make seven figures, but why? And what am I willing to do to get there? And I think it always comes back to the why. so I actually, I'm a doer. If it's on my list, it's gonna get done. And if I think it, I'm gonna do it. And so I think I don't slow down enough to do the process when I'm thinking it. It's after and I reflect. So I don't know sometimes if it was actually as well thought out now as it should have been. In fact, I know it wasn't.

Katie (45:52.398)

Mm-hmm.

Laura Thornton (46:11.389)

Now I don't do those moves the same way because I do have people to pay and a place to pay for. But before that, I was much more willing to throw dice and to do things without a lot more thought to it. Where now I'm very methodical and very analytical in my choices because it affects more than just me. So I know I didn't really answer your question, but.

Katie (46:23.15)

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie (46:32.244)

sure. No, it does. It's just back to exactly what you said, like we can get stuck on the saran wrap or the like seven figures or the my gosh, it's 1.6 million. And it's just many bathrooms. And then it's like, No, let's dig into the bowl and see what's really going on here. Okay, I've done this many bathrooms. I've done a kit, we're gonna be fine and figure out what's going on underneath. I think there's so much truth in that there's so much truth.

Laura Thornton (46:55.146)

Well, and it's snowballs, right? How much insurance do I need? How much that like you start to go down this path that feels overwhelming, but really it's a checklist, just like you have a checklist for every room that you design in a house, just like you've got a system for it was just a checklist. So break it down in a way that seems more manageable by bite. And it's amazing what you can tackle and talk yourself down off that ledge, if you will, or riding up here on this high frequency that you and I were talking about. know, you can definitely help yourself with just I'm a list maker.

Katie (46:57.973)

Yes.

Katie (47:15.148)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ha ha ha ha!

Laura Thornton (47:25.149)

and I love nothing better than a healthy checklist. I definitely would write down everything and go from there. But the mindset blocks that we create for ourselves, I think, is the biggest challenge.

Katie (47:25.175)

Yeah.

Katie (47:38.304)

It's usually not environmental. This whole conversation, it's usually not environmental, it's internal. And getting through that and doing the deep work and sitting in that is so invaluable because we're often our biggest own obstacles. And if we can just move ourselves out of the way, we can accomplish so much. Any last thoughts that you have about this or that we haven't covered that you think, my gosh, this is important when we're talking about mindset.

Laura Thornton (47:52.757)

True. Yeah.

Laura Thornton (48:04.906)

I think it's being brave and being courageous, which most people listening already have been by owning your own business. You've already made big leaps in your business. So if you are trying to get to that next leap and that is important to you, I do think that just look at your long-term impact on you and your family and your lifestyle or what you're trying to achieve and just think beyond the revenue milestone.

Katie (48:10.957)

Sure.

Katie (48:21.23)

Hmm.

Katie (48:27.916)

Yes.

Laura Thornton (48:28.296)

It's a great number, it's a great thing to work towards, but think beyond that. There is more to it than that. You could make a million dollars but give away 999,000 of it. So, where was the goal? Just think beyond it. Make sure you have goals, make sure you have some big hairy audacious goals, and make sure your core values are there and why you're doing it. Why is it important?

Katie (48:45.89)

B. Hags. Yep.

Katie (48:51.564)

And then go build your processes to match. gosh, build your processes so you're not in a ready fire aim approach. know? Be prepared. Well said.

Laura Thornton (48:55.188)

Yeah.

Yeah, be prepared. It's a lot of work. Yeah, it's a lot of work and it's worth it. It's just you have to be knowing why you're doing it.

Katie (49:07.03)

I love that, know your why, and then go get them. Love it. Laura, another fabulous conversation. Thank you so much for your time. It means more than you know. My pleasure.

Laura Thornton (49:15.807)

Thank you for having me.